I have a new bottle of PM tincture which the maker, a bulk herb shop, says is a "1:2" ratio in an alcohol base. I have been mixing it with flaxseed oil and applying it to my face and breasts. I give it a good shake each time to make sure it's well mixed.

But today I gave it a try in the tank atomizer of my e-cig. I know how to make my own e-liquid so I have all the ingredients. I mixed 1/3 each of the tincture, propylene glycol, and vegetable glycerine. I didn't add nicotine or flavoring. The taste is non-existent to mellow with no throat hit--nothing to rave about, but quite pleasant really. One tank-full contains a bit less than a teaspoon of the tincture and will last, I figure, about a day to finish off. So far I have experienced no ill effects so I think I'll make this a daily routine.

My hope is that this will be an excellent no-waste delivery system, because the goodness of the PM enters the the bloodstream directly via the lungs.

Does anyone else have any experience with this or similar?

That's pretty interesting please do keep us posted on how it goes for you.

I'd like to point out that some chemical compounds are unable to pass through the membranes in the lungs and enter the blood stream because of their size so they stay in the lungs and build up and some bind to the Alveolar membranes themselves over time and prevent the free passage of O2 molecules etc into the blood stream. Vaping a chemical compound that has never been tested in this fashion is potentially quite dangerous and the amount of damage you could do to your lungs and health over time is totally unknown.

To be honest.. I think you are taking a totally dangerous and needless risk with your life and health with this experiment.

~E

I'd like to point out that some chemical compounds are unable to pass through the membranes in the lungs and enter the blood stream because of their size so they stay in the lungs and build up and some bind to the Alveolar membranes themselves over time and prevent the free passage of O2 molecules etc into the blood stream. Vaping a chemical compound that has never been tested in this fashion is potentially quite dangerous and the amount of damage you could do to your lungs and health over time is totally unknown.

To be honest.. I think you are taking a totally dangerous and needless risk with your life and health with this experiment.




~E

Excellent points Elaina,

I'll just ask the obvious question, why?.

Why not sublingual delivery?, pretty sure it's about 98% absorption (and delivery within minutes), bypassing most of the frist pass metabolism.

I doubt any PM is delivered in the blood steam at all via vaporing, liqiud delivery goes to target tissue (e.g. breasts), skin applications is most likely an aromatase action through synthesis. You could also add low dose PM through standard delivery (oral) for a metabolic activation, and the liver is pro-ER-a (estrogen receptor alpha). If you want to improve the overall bioavailability of delivery look at carrier proteins and chaperones (e.g.fatty acids), my favorite is coconut oil.

Trespetite:
Thank you. I'll let you know if I don't get scared of this based on the other posters input.

ElainMoria:
Thank you for your concern and advice. I was actually going to preamble my post with something like "you might think I'm dumb, but...". I guess I base my confidence in the PM being able to pass through the membranes from my past experience as a smoker, now a vaper, and also my vaping of "4:20" on different device. In each case the target substances (and many other foul ones in the case of smoking) do enter the bloodstream. However, you are right and the molecules in the PM tincture might be too large/wrong type compared to nicotine, THC, etc., and it is not good to take a chance by making myself a guinea pig. Having the equipment and ingredients I thought I was being ingenious LOL, but you have shined some light and I feel a bit scared now. I'll seriously consider not continuing this.

Lotus:
Yes, sublingual delivery would be totally effective in terms of absorption--no need for me to experiment with inhaling. However, my thinking was that instead of an all-at-once dose, inhaling over a day would keep a constant level in the bloodstream. Thanks for your other points and about skin application using coconut oil. I have been using PM tincture mixed with flaxseed oil for skin application. Do you think that is a good carrier (after a good shake)?

*hugs Owena* I know it kinda sounded like I was being a Debby Downer with what I wrote... and your idea may actually be perfectly passable into your bloodstream... however... the lungs are very... touchy... systems in our bodies. Long term use of chemical smokes and inhalation of different vapors (both from vaping and from... other causes etc) can do terrible damage to our lungs that isn't readily and immediately noticeable but shows up over time instead and can lead to really terrible health conditions and shortening of ones life... For people like us who want to develop and enhance or feminine side... to do so and then.. find our life shortened and not be able to enjoy a full long life (barring totally unforeseen accidents).. that would be terrible and tragic.

I hope you understand my concern was for your safety and health so that you could enjoy a long, full life and not because I wanted to poo-poo your idea. I was and am just concerned about the potential dangers that may be lurking behind vaping a basically.. unknown compound.. that hasn't been used in this manner before that we know of... into one of the most essential and vital organs of our bodies.

My concern may have made me sound a little shorter and more terse than I intended. I would hate to see you injure yourself doing this if the size and complexity of the chemical compounds isn't readily passable through the membranes in your lungs and the potential side effects of an untested chemical compound IN your lungs and what it may (or may not) do to your lung tissue.

~Elain

There are problems with PM actually, and vaping that would be too potent of its bad effects.

As for Pueraria M., studies show that it causes breast cancer cells to grow. There aren't studies on PM on healthy tissue that I know of, but I think it influences that too. There aren't studies on what PM does, exactly, but it's believed to have both progesterone and estrogen effects. Seeing how people who use it say it causes irregularities like long but light periods; it anecdotally looks like it has LH effects too. Vaping Pueraria M. is not worth the cancer risk, and not worth potentially harming the pituitary by influencing too much LH. Don't vape anything if its not 100% safe, and PM has problems.

As for Pueraria M., studies show that it causes breast cancer cells to grow.

Sources? Every credible source I have ever seen states that PM has minor protective effects against breast cancer.

Ok, I did a search on Pueraria M. and MCF-7 which is a cell culture of cancer cells.

In most of the studies, PM caused MCF-7 cells to grow. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18621111

There is however a study, Antitumor activity of spinasterol isolated from Pueraria roots. that shows spinasterol's effects against many cancer cell lines.

This study compares Pueraria Mirifica to Pueraria Lobata and other plants. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15234761 .

One study shows different effects by different dosage amounts of PM. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18160771 . As for this study, this is similar to studies of Soy, and a certain mycoestrogen. At different doses they provide different effects, taken early and in small doses it is protect-ant against cancer, at high dosages or while cancer is present, it causes cancer growth.

Thank you for taking the time to show some references.
There is that one study from 2004 which seems to be getting passed around which supports the idea that PM extracts at 1microg/ml cause proliferation of existing MCF-7 cells, and then at higher concentrations, PM extracts kill those same cancer cells (if I am reading the results correctly). Lotus? In any case, the study in question is only looking at existing cancer situations. The summary page I reference below points out that some of these observed effects do not properly control for variables. For example, these effects appear to be possibly more related to how the extracts are created "(ethanolic extract twice filtered, then extracted with hexane and ethyl acetate)" than to any compound present in the root, according to their evaluation.
I don't imagine there are many people in this sub-forum with existing breast cancer, or taking really low quantities of PM. If you have breast cancer and are taking estrogen or estrogen-like compounds, you will most likely demonstrate the concept of survival of the fittest.
I found http://examine.com/supplements/Pueraria+mirifica/ to be a pretty good summary of PM and its benefits and risks and I thought it had a fairly clear summary of the cancer-related studies.
I do suspect that vaping PM is probably taking some unguessable and seriously unnecessary risks.