(21-03-2015, 04:03 PM)flamesabers Wrote: (21-03-2015, 02:57 AM)bryony Wrote: The whole point is that the marriage [in the article] is based on a lie. The wife is the injured party. Therefore it is incumbent on the husband to make amends, by agreeing any way forward with the wife, and not just going ahead with it come what may.
I understand it would be hard to grasp by someone who hasn't been married though.
B.
How should the husband make amends? Even if he presents as male, the wife may still be unhappy that he's taking hormones or whatnot.
Well, I did actually say:
"..incumbent on the husband to make amends,
by agreeing any way forward with the wife, and not just going ahead with it come what may."
The whole problem is caused by the intital dishonesty. If and when you enter into a permanent relationship, you would not want to find years down the line that it was based on a lie, would you? That the person was an ex-criminal, with a false name, who maybe murdered someone? An extreme example, to get you going.
Given that he kept this from her, he must agree any future steps with her to save the relationship. But compromise is the basis of a relationship.
My example: my wife does not like me needing to take medication for my mental balance that has the side effect of growing breasts, but she accepts it because of the obvious benefits. She has made it perfectly clear that she would
not be happy if I were to make their presence known with flimsy tight fitting shirts, bras, or cross-dressing, and I have assured her that I would not do anything that she did not agree to.
My sincere belief is that sufficient treatment with an estrogen-like substance or even estrogen itself removes the pressing drive, if not the deep-down desire, to present as a female. This is borne out by the experiences of many contributors to this forum.
For a husband taking sufficient hormones to suppress the dysphoria to then continue on with a programme of total feminisation without regard to his wife's feelings is, to me, unconscionable.
Quote:I agree the husband isn't the man the wife married. The genie can't be put back into the bottle. I think now it's up to the wife now as to what she wants to do going forward. I think I said as much in my initial response:
Quote:In her situation I think she has two choices: leave her husband if this is too overwhelming for her, or come to accept the situation and make the best of it
See my response above. The 3rd alternative is for the husband to take hormones like I do and continue to present as a male. Compromise. Your two alternatives seem to take the husband's transition as a given... it should not be.
Quote:I don't think the wife having to make a decision absolves the husband of culpability. The way I see it, regardless of what the husband does and does not do, she bears ownership of whether or not she wants to remain married to him. Yes, it's a unfortunate situation for her, but it's still something she must decide on regardless.
Well, that's kind of obvious, but he can make the decision easier by letting her have control of the situation. If he is a total misogynistic bastard, who is letting his desire to transition act in exactly the same way as a normal man having an affair, then of course she should leave him, and screw him for every penny she can.
But that is the nub of the discussion isn't it? It is how the deceitful male should behave, and make amends as I outlined above, rather than how the poor wife has to deal with it.
Quote:I'm curious to gauge your response in a different type of situation. Let's say hypothetically instead of transitioning, the husband has depression. He may or may not have depressive episodes prior to being married. He gets treatment, to include medication and therapy. However, the catch is the medication drastically reduces his libido. He's feeling better but his wife is unhappy because he's showing little sexual interest in her. He's tried going off the medication, but the depression returns not to long after.
Does the husband have a duty to sacrifice his own well-being to keep his wife sexually satisfied? I would say no.
Some of this presents a false hypothesis. Knowing personally the effects of dysphoria include depression, getting rid of that is precisely why I have to take the herbs that reduce my libido.
However, a reduced libido does not prevent you having sex at the drop of a hat.
Women, compared to men, have a much reduced libido during the weeks of the month that they are not fertile. It does not stop them being available to satisfy their husbands.... this is know as "consideration".
Yes, the man in your hypothesis may not be able to achieve erection, but that does not stop him satisfying his wife, does it? I have no interest in doing the washing up, but I still do it from time to time as it is a responsibility and a consideration.
Also it's quite possible that he would be able to take Viagra to accommodate her if she wished for natural penetration. This incidentally is the answer to your...
Quote:Maybe there is a solution that will ensure both parties are happy, or maybe the wife will have to decide whether a sexless marriage is something she can live with.
But then you say...
Quote:If not, she has the option to get a divorce and find a man she is happy with.
You seem awfully keen on this solution. We are talking about people with children, hence now related by blood who have been together for perhaps decades. Why are your sympathies so much with someone who, let's not forget, was absolutely derelict in not warning the author of the article that he had this problem
before she agreed to marry him and have his children?
The person in your example wasn't hiding the fact that he had depression before he got married - that's why it is a false analogy.
Now, in the instance where he was unaware of the specifics of what was wrong, and thought he would "grow out of it", the answer is the same. Talk to the wife. Explain that with age, the depression and anxiety have got worse. The only answer is estrogen medication which will grow breasts.
This is not so very different from the outcome of treatment for prostate cancer, and no decent wife would leave a husband who grew breasts to avoid cancer.
Equally no decent wife would leave someone suffering from depression caused by gender dysphoria who could be treated by estrogen.
However such treatment does not mandate that the sufferer HAS to pantomime a woman if it disturbs his wife greatly. That's my point.
Quote:Yes, being a lifelong bachelor very likely has a material influence on marriage. The way I see it, people change for better or for worse. I think sometimes marriages can be improved or saved with adequate effort. Other times, it may be more sensible and practical to end it and have both parties go on their own paths. Do all friendships or cohabiting relationships thrive and last for a lifetime? No. Why would it be any different for marriages? I don't think marriage vows guarantees a relationship will be happy and long lasting anymore than exercising regularly guarantees one will have a healthy and long life.
That is a very sad and cynical, and all too accurate assessment of modern society.
If you really feel that way Flame, then I think your decision for permanent bachelorhood is well made.
Mine is the first generation in my country (not certain about others) with no real perspective of what life is really about. Although I heard from my parents the tales of death and destruction that they experienced on a daily basis when the Germans bombarded London, I never, (until recent years when friends and relatives of comparable age started dying,) truly felt that life can end at any minute.
Such awareness does tend to concentrate your mind on the things that are important in life.
People feel so entitled now: "You only have one shot at happiness"; "I'm not getting enough out of this marriage"; "I don't love you anymore".
Phrases such as these are generally uttered by people who look at such rituals as marriage as rather like buying a new car. A reason to show off how lavish a wedding you can have; exhibiting a trophy wife who will be discarded when a newer model with stronger suspension comes along, or a trophy husband who will last until someone with a bigger bank account comes along.
Here is my benchmark for a man considering marriage: If you had an accident which made you permanently impotent, would you still take a bullet for this woman to save her life? If the answer is no, then you do not love her and you should not marry her. You
certainly should not be inseminating her.
B.