People define their own identities, so debate over such matters seems futile to me.

Oh dear... have you matured 10 years in the last 6 months?

I can relate to your experiences, Bryony. I am transsexual. That fact has been established through a process of self-discovery over the past 2 years or so. I suffered gender dysphoria from an early age although the cause was not fully understood until very late in my life. Cross dressing was not my thing. I coped with my GD through fantasies involving my being a woman. Sexual arousal often accompanied these fantasies.

When I started taking PM to lower my A/E balance, the erotic fantasizing disappeared within a couple of weeks. Half my GD problem was solved, but I still had the problem of hating my male body. As my breasts developed and other feminizing effects of PM appeared, I alternated between being ecstatic and scared. Eventually, feelings of joy dominated and the need to transition became crystal clear.

In my case autogynephilia was a manifestation of my GD whose root cause was having a very strong, but suppressed, female gender identity. Today, there is nothing erotic about my being a woman. It's simply who I am, and I dress as a woman daily for the purpose of projecting the gender that I know myself to be.

I agree with you, Bryony, that tinkering with one's sex hormone balance is risky. It could reveal things that lead to lasting mental peace and fulfillment, or cause the painful disruption of one's life.

Clara

I can relate to your experiences, Bryony. I am transsexual. That fact has been established through a process of self-discovery over the past 2 years or so. I suffered gender dysphoria from an early age although the cause was not fully understood until very late in my life. Cross dressing was not my thing. I coped with my GD through fantasies involving my being a woman. Sexual arousal often accompanied these fantasies.

Sounds identical, pretty much, Clara.

When I started taking PM to lower my A/E balance, the erotic fantasizing disappeared within a couple of weeks. Half my GD problem was solved, but I still had the problem of hating my male body. As my breasts developed and other feminizing effects of PM appeared, I alternated between being ecstatic and scared.

Still identical...

Eventually, feelings of joy dominated and the need to transition became crystal clear.

And that's the difference, I think. Older kids, leading separate lives; A wife who is prepared to totally lose the man she met and fell in love with for a kind of replacement; lots of financial resources; most importantly, the ability to be content with a sudden change into being a later-middle-aged lady without having a lifetime of preparedness for it; and the ability to pursue your goal come what may.

I don't have any of those things.

In my case autogynephilia was a manifestation of my GD whose root cause was having a very strong, but suppressed, female gender identity. Today, there is nothing erotic about ... [it].

Match here again, totally.

It's simply who I am, and I dress as a woman daily for the purpose of projecting the gender that I know myself to be.

That's great for you Clara, if you can be happy that way, and you clearly are.
I return to my atheist/believer analogy - I'm happy for my believer friends, because they will get nearer to the end of their days in the comfort of their faith, whereas my apprehension just grows. I cannot believe just because I want to.

Similarly if I tried to emulate you and the others who have done so, I would not be happy. I am a very analytical person, and an aesthetic one. I would be looking hard at myself in the mirror, and, for me, it would be much, much worse seeing a man pretending to be an old woman than my true physical form. I'm very good at suppressing my disbelief when it comes to stories, cinema, special effects, etc. When it comes to me, not so much.

As a source of pleasure, I'm delighted with the breasts that I have, as they have more than replaced my now defunct male organ, a thousand times over. Best of all they need no mental fantasies to work - they just do. (The major difference between men and women, in that respect, I think)

But when I look at them in the mirror, I think "if only my ribcage was a 30 or 32 underbust, not a 34; they would look beautiful"

As it is, they point in the wrong directions, the width of the sternum pushes them too far apart, and my shoulders make them look tiny. The profile is better, but the depth of my ribcage again makes them appear small - whereas on the ribcage and shoulders that I would have had if I had been born a girl, it would have been radically different, and I would have been so proud of them.

That's the level of self-criticism I have to deal with.

I did not make it clear - my autogynephilia is like a reformed alcoholic. It lurks there but is under control.

I no longer suffer from the anxiety and depression and the erotic paraphilia, but I am still discontented with the body I inhabit, just as though I were a "normal" male who, having worked hard in the gym, lost all his flab, looks in the mirror and does not see Tom Cruise / looking back at himself.

My dysphoria includes never being able to experience what a young girl has experienced... which cannot be cured. So I'm different in that respect.

I agree with you, Bryony, that tinkering with one's sex hormone balance is risky. It could reveal things that lead to lasting mental peace and fulfillment, or cause the painful disruption of one's life.

Or in my case, lessens the pain, and lets you make the best with the cr*p hand that fate has dealt! At least I can do enjoyable stuff now without having the weight of the world on my shoulders!

B.

Just for reference, the term is "dysphoria" not "disorder". The distinction, to me is important , if only in a theoretical manner. The former describes something as out of whack while the latter merely names a state or condition, not necessarily in need of correction.
I believe both gender and sexuality are neither one truly binaries. I believe rather that they are both continuous spectrums with an extreme at either end and most people somewhere in between. For those at or near one pole, it is easy to self identify with the extreme in order to fit in with the socially constructed binary. For the rest....they either live with discomfort and shame since they don't fit the binary model, or they accept themselves and do what they must (whatever that is...it's totally personal and unique to each of us) to find peace..
The rest is pretty academic, or so it seems to me. Labels are for soup cans.
I mean, you get one turn on this ride. Are you living it for yourself or to fit in with what other people think you should be? I know my answer to that question. And to quote Miss C, as far as what anyone else thinks, "my give a shit is broken"

I do not consider myself schizophrenic in the least. I am an integrated person of indefinite gender....

I think this means we are only differing on semantics. If you believe in a spirit, you are saying you have a single spirit, not two, and that your spirit doesn't have two sides. It has its itself, and that self is not stuck in any role, and does not have to switch between them to deal with the experiences of life. Of course, one of the cool things about stuff like spirits is that anybody can define them any way they like.

On the buddha reference, it never fails to cause me incredulity that anyone who acts like they really believe there is some kind of being or conscientiousness invisible to us, untouchable by us, incomprehensible to us, that they can somehow name it, give it a role, define it societally, and create rules for living based on these names, roles, and rules.

I have a friend (maybe 'acquaintance' is a better description), a retired police officer, who after retirement feminized her body top to bottom. She passes for a woman in most situations, but I wouldn't say that she's good looking by today's standards given the masculine secondary sex characteristics that remain. She refuses to characterize her gender identity as either male or female, insisting that she identifies simply "as myself". Yes, legally she's classified as female, and she accepts that over the alternative, but it's not important to her to conform to society's concept of what being female is about. I think she has a very healthy attitude about her gender, and has adapted well to the life changes that transition required. I've fallen back on her example several times in dealing with my own inability to emulate my ideal woman image which I know I can never achieve for the same reasons that Bryony expressed.

Time and time again I find evidence that the happiest among us are those that find a way to be true to ourselves, however that is accomplished. It's different for each person, and it's by no means easy, but if you can arrive at that state of mind at some point in your life, it really doesn't get any better than that.

Clara

I have a friend (maybe 'acquaintance' is a better description), a retired police officer, who after retirement feminized her body top to bottom. She passes for a woman in most situations, but I wouldn't say that she's good looking by today's standards given the masculine secondary sex characteristics that remain.

She passes for a woman...

Awesome, no problem there right?

I wouldn't say that she's good looking by today's standards given the masculine secondary sex characteristics that remain.

Today's standards? ........what are those exactly?. She obviously doesn't care what society thinks about her gender status. That in itself makes this individual (friend/acquaintance) a remarkable person, I'd be happy to call her my friend, not insult her.

Btw, PM is "NOT" hrt. PM shows more affinity for estrogen receptor beta (aka-ER-b) that's the protective receptor. Erstogen receptor alpha (aka-ER-a) is the growth receptor (science backs that up, which has already been posted inside BN multiple times).

If PM is so mammaogenic where's all the C and D-cups to prove it??, or.....why do we find the need to increase the dosage and supplement with other herbs!.

If PM is so mammaogenic where's all the C and D-cups to prove it??, or.....why do we find the need to increase the dosage and supplement with other herbs!.

Hello Lotus,

I'm confused on cup sizes. Depending on what country or supplier sells bras, there is some screwy business about adding on 4 inches or not.

I've taken nothing but PM for 3.5 years. Currently there is a 4.5 inch difference between my underbust (34") and around the nipple (38.5")

When I started, in Oct 2011, I was fatter and had an underbust measurement of 36" and around the nipples measured 37". Pictures here

That 3.5" pretty much represents glandular growth. When I put on a few pounds last Christmas, I grew to 40" around and 35" under.

I have no idea what this means in terms of cup size.

Out of interest, would they have been markedly different on an HRT regimen, do you think? (Not that I propose to follow one).

[Edit.]

Not sure what you are getting at re: the different kinds of receptors, but the mental effects of PM that I experience correspond exactly with those described in papers by Anne Vitale regarding the beneficial effects of pharm. estrogens on gender dysphoric males. How does that relate?

B.

Hi bryony,

The band calculations never made much sense to me. You might remember sfem's thread, I've used that principle ever since. I had to find another reference tool (below) cause I kept growing. Using cup size by which to measure breast growth gives real time data, especially when pumping or even water retention (which we all know fluctuates).

Bra sizing for men growing breasts
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=7862

If we went by band size you'd be a D or DD in some bra lines. Your overall shape is quite impressive, proof when done right NBE does work, you look great, congrats.

I have a friend (maybe 'acquaintance' is a better description), a retired police officer, who after retirement feminized her body top to bottom. She passes for a woman in most situations, but I wouldn't say that she's good looking by today's standards given the masculine secondary sex characteristics that remain.

She passes for a woman...

Awesome, no problem there right?

I wouldn't say that she's good looking by today's standards given the masculine secondary sex characteristics that remain.

Today's standards? ........what are those exactly?. She obviously doesn't care what society thinks about her gender status. That in itself makes this individual (friend/acquaintance) a remarkable person, I'd be happy to call her my friend, not insult her.

Btw, PM is "NOT" hrt. PM shows more affinity for estrogen receptor beta (aka-ER-b) that's the protective receptor. Erstogen receptor alpha (aka-ER-a) is the growth receptor (science backs that up, which has already been posted inside BN multiple times).

If PM is so mammaogenic where's all the C and D-cups to prove it??, or.....why do we find the need to increase the dosage and supplement with other herbs!.

Lotus, why is it that you only respond to my posts when you find an opportunity to insult me? Are you still harboring bad feelings toward me?

Clara