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Permanent tweener?

#41

That was a very interesting post for me, EvaMarie.

I'm still as confused as ever after taking PM for few months. I don't really feel much different, perhaps a bit fatigued due to my body being used to higher T levels. Sometimes I wonder if I'm a fraud, a crossdressing pervert or just kidding myself. My ring/index finger ratio is masculine whereas supposedly for transwomen it is more feminine, so prenatal testosterone levels has nothing to do with what led me here. I have high systems intelligence and low emotional intelligence, a stereotypically masculine type brain, I'm probably the last person anyone would suspect of being trans. I don't fit the mould.

But I still want my body to be feminine, that is my ideal body image. Maybe I just can't deal with the pressure and expectations of being a man, didn't grow up mentally or running away from my confidence issues. I have no idea if I will ever transition, try to straddle somewhere in between, or revert to being a pretend man. BLEH!!! Huh
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#42

Josephine, only you can answer that question, honey. But this is where a good TG specializing therapist can be helpful. Not one that simply rushes everyone into transition, but one that asks the right non directed questions so that they can help you figure out what you want. Are you seeing someone?
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#43

(16-09-2014, 11:35 PM)JosephineDreams Wrote:  My ring/index finger ratio is masculine whereas supposedly for transwomen it is more feminine, so prenatal testosterone levels has nothing to do with what led me here.

Hi Josephine,

Finger Length Ratios in Serbian Transsexuals
Quote:The etiology of transsexualism is not yet clarified. Many hypothesis exist and this study shown some more data in examining some indirect parameters of early androgen exposure of the sexual dimorphic brain region and changes of finger length ratio.
Quote:The present data suggest an early organizational effect of sex hormones through the association between body shape and finger length patterns. Also, these data draw attention to difficulties in the interpretation of results when somatic features are employed as biological markers.
Quote:Transsexualism in humans is biological in origin. Our findings support a biological etiology of MFT implicating decreased prenatal androgen exposure in MFT. 2D : 4D could be potentially used as a marker for prenatal androgen exposure.

Finger length is a potential marker, not a definitive sign of transsexualism. It is not meant to be used for a diagnosis.

Samantha post above is the best advise.


Denita
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#44

(16-09-2014, 02:46 PM)b.rose Wrote:  *** Abridged quote ***
I did not listen either, I thought I could control it, but my basic problem was that I did not understand what was wrong with me. I did not understand my underlying feelings and were they came from. I thought I was just weird or something

I'm pretty sure, when you say "wrong with me" that you don't mean your gender identity is "broken". I think you're talking about your RESPONSE to your gender identity. In other words, thinking you're a misfit, pervert, etc. Being feminine inclined or flat out feeling like you're in the wrong body (Gender Identity Disorder as some call it) is NOT wrong! We are not defective or unwell in our heads. If you (not you in particular b.rose but everyone in this community in general) think there's something "wrong" with you because your physical gender doesn't match the way you feel, please stop thinking that way about yourself. We each posses unique mixtures of male and female to varying degrees but there's nothing WRONG with that. I can only hope that someday we and the rest of the world can fully accept that truth. ...Just wanted to clarify that. Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting you b.rose

(16-09-2014, 08:42 PM)EvaMarie Wrote:  *** Abridged quote ***
Its becoming clearer to me that to become some super fem living and "acting" "real woman" is just as fake for me as being a "real man" was...

Sorry Eve, I can't respond to everything you said but this stuck out to me. I agree, if you're acting like a woman ...you're just acting like a woman. It's tempting to do and I've done it just enough to know I don't ever want to do it again. It doesn't fool anyone and honestly, it just reinforces the binary view of gender that so dominates our society. I know you don't need this encouragement Eve but other do and I just want to reinforce your sentiment that we should just be ourselves. Whether you like guns or hugs, don't try to be anyone but who you really are. Just be yourself.

(16-09-2014, 11:35 PM)JosephineDreams Wrote:  *** Abridged quote ***
...My ring/index finger ratio is masculine whereas supposedly for transwomen it is more feminine, so prenatal testosterone levels has nothing to do with what led me here. I have high systems intelligence and low emotional intelligence, a stereotypically masculine type brain, I'm probably the last person anyone would suspect of being trans. I don't fit the mould.

But I still want my body to be feminine, that is my ideal body image. Maybe I just can't deal with the pressure and expectations of being a man, didn't grow up mentally or running away from my confidence issues. I have no idea if I will ever transition, try to straddle somewhere in between, or revert to being a pretend man. BLEH!!! Huh

I agree with Sammie and Denita. You're using weak methods to determine your gender identity Josephine. There is no definitive test (besides your heart) to determine gender identity and what you FEEL can't be measured effectively. It takes a lot of practice to hear and understand your heart but it's a wonderful thing when you do. You're confused right now, that's OK. Clarity will come with time as you listen to your heart and test your understanding of what it's telling you. A professional counselor might be the way to go but don't underestimate the value of a great listener (if you know one) or this forum. Best of wishes to you as you continue to sort through your feelings Josephine.
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#45

Samantha's comment is right on, finding a good therapist is very important. While I am pretty confidant of my situation, I am still at the looking for a good Gender Therapist (GT) stage. Most of what I have been doing so far has been either exercise based or just low level herbal HRT to suppress GD at this point. (But the amount of flat out reshaping of body lines that can be achieved by targeted exercise is often severely underestimated!)

I do have the high 2D:4D finger ratio, but what I have read this is just strongly correlated, not a litmus test that confirms or denies anything. How you feel, and getting to a point where you feel good/better/happy is the important thing.

Don't let the personal experiences and paths of others distract you from your own path. Or let the lack of certain traits or experiences make you invalidate others. Smile

Unlike others here I never really dressed, and I have no hate for my male equipment. I feel strongly that my GID is non-binary Androgyne. Years ago when I first asked myself allot of these hard questions, and did not talk to a GT I made the mistake of thinking that since I was not or did not X, Y Z, that A, B, C was not true. If you have these feelings, be true to yourself and like Samantha said, get a good ST that will ask the right questions. And not just rush you down the line to SRS/GCS or out their door.

(TRIGGER WARNING)

After years ago listening to some toxic highly binary advice that was not relevant to my non-binary situation, the was one piece of evidence and experience that was chilling and clear to me that I did have GD.

It was reading a MTF talking about looking in the mirror, she referred to not seeing herself in it for years, but rather seeing puppet, mannequin, or body.

I had never heard anyone else ever talk about a mirror this way, most people would say that they see themselves in the mirror, or that "I see me". I had always glibly said "I see what I look like" or "I see my body." To myself when I looked in the mirror I would always refer to my body as husk, marionette, conveyance, the box I keep my brain in, or even carcass. Just on rare occasions when I really tried would I see a glint of myself trapped in the reflection of my eyes. AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS NORMAL.

I had not seen "myself" in the mirror for over 20 years.

Now even the minor changes that I have made, small though they are, compared to many of the brave and bold people here, now I can see myself in the mirror. And the roar of GD is becoming a whisper. I have my identity, validity, and I am a better person for it.


- JJ (Behold my prolific use of emoticons!)
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#46

Interesting comment about the mirror. When I was trapped for most of my life behind the mask I had created for myself I continilually would look unhappily at my reflection in the mirror. I thought always that I ( my body) was ugly, because it did not fit the ideal shape required by the mask. Now, with the mask falling away, or rather, being deliberately stripped away, I see my refection when I step out of the shower and I am pleased finally. Not because of vanity...I see my flaws all too well...lol...but because what I see is female. Flawed female, obviously, but female...and it feels right. It just feels right. I dont know if that is weird or understandable, but what I seek is to be whole within my mind and body...to be aurhentic. To be real. It is no easy thing.
What Eva said about guns and so on...I dont see those things as gender related. I am no longer sure at all how to define male and female. It all seems so arbitrary. Things do not have gender anymore than personality traits This is a hard lesson to learn.
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#47

When I first registered with BN thirty months ago, it was because I had been pursuing breast growth as what I hoped would be a sufficient substitute for the transition which I had looked intoand dismissed as impossible, not only because of my family circumstances , age and height, but also many years of repression, distraction and sublimation. Being a permanent tweener would I hoped be enough. It wasn't.

What follows is the depersonalized and sllghtly modified text on which my 'coming out' emails have been based.


'I am writing to you together to tell you something about myself that you may need to know, and may be rather a shock to you.

Since my mother died at the end of 2009, an issue which I had always very firmly repressed or hidden before then, because of both my education in a boys boarding school with a particularly rigid emphasis on behaviour proper to a male, as well as the strong influence of my mother, has been gradually emerging in its true nature and now in full force so that I cannot deny it any longer. Initially I only ‘came out’ to my wife, and that with some difficulty until I wrote it all down in a long screed, since when despite her own natural difficulties with the situation she has been far more supportive than I could reasonably have expected. In short, I am and always have been (since the condition is innate and unalterable) transgendered. This is I understand it probably because my mother had German measles during the sixteenth and seventeenth weeks of her pregnancy with me, which is the stage at which it is now known that gender pre-programming of the fetal brain occurs, and that may also account for my height and poor physical coordination. It is of course something I was born with, and cannot do anything to change.

With this new self knowledge and my wife’s support, I may now be able to take steps to overcome the ‘dysphoria’ that the conflict of uncomfortably living in a male shell has caused, allowing, very late in the day, my real self to re-emerge. My mother was very firmly convinced before I was born that I was going to be Annabel, but I arrived with the wrong equipment, and after my father died I became, I think somewhat at my younger brother’s expense, the favoured son who was to achieve all of that of which my father was denied the opportunity; but I was always unhappy in trying to fulfill this role (my mother wondered why the happy, outgoing child she sent to boarding school became withdrawn and unsocial), and at the risk of sounding disloyal, I found my mother highly and increasingly possessive until forty years ago I eventually cut and ran for Canada (and initially she even tried to follow me here). It seems that Annabel really was there all along, although I’m sure my mother would have been appalled by the manner in which she has now emerged. I am recently back from a big transgender convention (SCC) in Atlanta, which as my wife initially and correctly said was everything I would have hated in my male persona. In fact it was an intensely liberating experience which I enjoyed immensely, and I feel that I have got back my real life that got suppressed by that prep school and my mother’s expectations. I had never in the past cross dressed, but presented as Annie (short for Annabel) during the convention, gathered the confidence to travel back to Canada in that mode, and have continued that way ever since, tackling situations as they arise. My height is of course a problem, but one shared by a disproportionate number of male to female transgender people. Another is my bald head. I’ll try to append a few photographs to this message.

I have been extraordinarily fortunate in the strength of my bond with my wife which goes well beyond either sex or gender, and also in that both my step-children have taken it very well, and indeed everyone we have told to date. My wife’s position is that her alternatives were stark: either she left me, which after more than 50 years of friendship and nearly 35 of marriage she would not do, or she goes forward with me in full partnership to do whatever it takes to give Annie the freedom she deserves. I am very aware that this course, while liberating me, also puts constraints on her, her acceptance of which puts me even more in her debt than I always was. She also feels that, emotionally if not legally, she has lost a husband. I feel that while husband may not remain an appropriate term, we certainly remain spouses in a powerful union. I still find marriage an uncomfortable term for non-traditional unions, but it seems now to have passed into the language. Available language in the whole transgender area is grossly inadequate for unambiguous communication, and raises all sorts of conundrums.

So far as the convention was concerned, as soon as I learned of its existence I knew that I must go, and go as Annie, even though it would be her first public appearance, and my wife took the line ,that if I was to do that, then I must at least be a credit to her. So I ended up equipped with quite a wardrobe of which the centre piece was a magnificent gown for the formal dinner on the last night, designed and made entirely by her.

On the health side, some past medical malpractice combined with some connivance on my part has resulted in a degree of feminisation of my body, followed up by some more deliberate action on my own part. A side effect of this has turned out to be a significant rejuvenation. When I recently renewed my passport, I looked at the new passport and the old cancelled passport and thought that I looked at least five years younger rather than five years older in the new one, and indeed younger than even in the passport before that! In one of the photos I am attaching showing a group of convention participants, at least the five who are seated (I don’t know the others well enough) all look much younger than their real ages (and in connection with my comment on height, five of those in the picture, including myself, are 6' 3" or taller). So perhaps there are some side benefits to a degree of transition, although the basic condition, not responded to, causes problems I would not wish on anybody.

I hope that you can both find it in you to accept me as I really am.'


For my part, I really feel that I am getting my life back, although terribly late in the day.
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#48

Perhaps I should add that, possibly similarly to Eva Marie, what I have felt is more 'not male' than female. As I understand it though, female is the default sex, and if not male then presumably I have some kind of female brain in a male body, and the more I can feminize my body and my presentation, the more comfortable I should be? Also, Sammie's last post in this thread is very much in accord with my thinking (except that she is not faced with a bald head coming out of the shower, which spoils the illusion). Maybe I should get a bathing cap?
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#49

Annie, I am so proud of you my dear friend. I am so happy for you.
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#50

Best wishes Annie as you circulate your letter. I hope all continues to go well for you with each person to whom you present it. ...I would only offer this one piece of advice. Although I have not tested it myself, it was given to me by a close friend who is fully "out" but not fully transitioned. Her advise was that the initial reaction you get from those you tell is not always their lasting impression. Some change from rejection to acceptance and others change from acceptance to rejection when everything settles in. I think it's prudent to be on the lookout for that to happen in a few cases anyway. Again, I hope all goes as expected for you!
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