Hi All,

I've been an avid reader of all your comments and advice for a while now and have been trying now for about 3 months to help the girls along. I've been trying for the last 3 months with a program primarily of SP & FG but added Maco and flaxseed oil over the last month. Ive seen a bit of growth but have decided to switch to Ainterol PM Here is my program currently.

6000mg FG daily
2000mg SP daily
3600mg Flaxseed Oil daily orally 1200mg massage
500mg MACO daily

Daily breast massage with Flaxseed Oil and pumping

With the switch to PM what do you recommend as a starting point for PM dosage? And should I continue with any of the other herbs along with the PM?

Thanks for your help.

Joanna

Hi All,

I've been an avid reader of all your comments and advice for a while now and have been trying now for about 3 months to help the girls along. I've been trying for the last 3 months with a program primarily of SP & FG but added Maco and flaxseed oil over the last month. Ive seen a bit of growth but have decided to switch to Ainterol PM Here is my program currently.

6000mg FG daily
2000mg SP daily
3600mg Flaxseed Oil daily orally 1200mg massage
500mg MACO daily

Daily breast massage with Flaxseed Oil and pumping

With the switch to PM what do you recommend as a starting point for PM dosage? And should I continue with any of the other herbs along with the PM?

Thanks for your help.

Joanna

Hi Joanna and welcome,

I wanted to give you some info on your plan if that's ok. There's a concern in the medical community about men consuming FSO for the following reasons:

Some men worry that taking flaxseed oil might increase their chance of getting prostate cancer because of the alpha-linolenic acid that flaxseed oil contains. Researchers are still trying to figure out the role of alpha-linolenic acid in prostate cancer. Some studies suggest that alpha-linolenic acid may increase risk or make existing prostate cancer worse, but other studies find no connection. Nevertheless, the alpha-linolenic acid in flaxseed oil doesn’t seem to be a problem. Alpha-linolenic acid from plant sources, such as flaxseed, does not seem to affect prostate cancer risk, although alpha-linolenic acid from dairy and meat sources has been linked in some studies with prostate cancer.
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-990-FLAXSEED%20OIL.aspx?activeIngredientId=990&activeIngredientName=FLAXSEED%20OIL

FSO also has the potential to be an aromatase inhibitor:

GLA-Gamma-Linolenic Acid

GLA- a fatty acid found primarily in vegetable oils. It is sold as a dietary supplement for a variety of human health problems. Here's a list of common GLA's and there uses or treatments for NBE.

Borage oil-The oil helps regulate hormones and lowers blood pressure, 3x more GLA than EPO, massage, galactogogue-increases breast milk in lactating mothers, Fibrocystic breast pain, anti-androgen

Evening Primrose Oil- massage, Fibrocystic breast pain, treats hot flashes, relieves PMS symptoms, relieves Eczema, hormone balance, fights breast tumors

Flaxseed oil-Lignan, massage, omega-3 fatty acids, Flax seed oil can increase prolactin, at the cost of lowering estrogen, (lignans inhibit aromatase), helps with breast pain.
Inhibition of human aromatase by mammalian lignans and isoflavonoid phytoestrogens
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/096007609390022O

Coconut oil-makes connective tissues stronger for that much desired softness and elasticity. superb antioxidant activities that neutralize free radicals and slowing down aging, aids in breast feeding, Coconut oil is nature's richest source of MCFAs."

Precautions

________________________________________________________________

Because of the potential for side effects and interactions with medications, dietary supplements should be taken only under the supervision of a knowledgeable healthcare provider.

Omega-6 supplements, including GLA and EPO, should not be used if you have a seizure disorder because there have been reports of these supplements inducing seizures.

Borage seed oil,and possibly other sources of GLA, should not be used during pregnancy because they may be harmful to the fetus and induce early labor.

Doses of GLA greater than 3,000 mg per day should be avoided because, at that point, production of AA-Arachidonic Acid(rather than DGLA) may increase.

FG dosage might be on the high side, SP is anti-estrogenic so I'd consider another AA. Are you seeing (feeling) any stomach discomfort on your current plan dosages?.

Good luck.

Hi All,

I've been an avid reader of all your comments and advice for a while now and have been trying now for about 3 months to help the girls along. I've been trying for the last 3 months with a program primarily of SP & FG but added Maco and flaxseed oil over the last month. Ive seen a bit of growth but have decided to switch to Ainterol PM Here is my program currently.

6000mg FG daily
2000mg SP daily
3600mg Flaxseed Oil daily orally 1200mg massage
500mg MACO daily

Daily breast massage with Flaxseed Oil and pumping

With the switch to PM what do you recommend as a starting point for PM dosage? And should I continue with any of the other herbs along with the PM?

Thanks for your help.

Joanna

Hi Joanna. PM is all you need for now. 2000 mg daily should get growth started in a month or two.

Clara

That's not necessarily true Clara, Joanna didn't list her age or other determining factors that might suggest the need for an anti-androgen. Without knowing those details yet I wouldn't say PM is all that is needed. Everybody metabolizes differently, a saliva hormone test would help if possible.

2000 mg of PM is not a suggested starting dose, start with 1000 mg for the first couple of weeks. Then increase 500 mg for the next two weeks and evaluate after that.

Since ALA is good regarding prostate cancer when it comes from "good" foods (e.g. walnuts, canola, flax, vegetables, olive oil) and bad when it comes from red meat, it might not have any effect of its own. Here are a few meta-analyses. 1 2 They say that if you ignore the Health Professionals’ Follow-up Study, where the main source of ALA was red meat, then there's no problem with ALA.

ALA also enhances the effects of EPA and DHA for cardiovascular health. 1 2

Here is a paper with equations to predict the effect of your diet on your tissue levels of the long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids. It's basically a zero-sum game between three competitors: omega-6; the omega-3 DHA; and the omega-3s EPA and DPA. The Keep It Managed software says some constants were changed in 2002, so 0.008 should be 0.005 (HI3), 0.5 should be 0.7 (HC6), and 8.75 should be 3.0 (HC3).

So here are the LC-PUFA predictions for me supplementing various amounts of fats:

9 g flax oil: 64% n-6, 23% EPA+DPA, and 13% DHA.
500 mg EPA/DHA: 61% n-6, 12% EPA+DPA, and 27% DHA.
500 mg EPA/DHA + 1 g flax oil: 60% n-6, 15% EPA+DPA, and 25% DHA.
1000 mg EPA/DHA: 51% n-6, 18% EPA+DPA, and 31% DHA.
2400 mg EPA/DHA: 35% n-6, 31% n-3, and 34% DHA.

I think 500 mg EPA/DHA + 1 g flax oil gives me the best profile if you don't take lignan aromatase inhibition into consideration. It's close to what they used in the Alpha Omega Trial in the papers above so it works in practice as well as in theory. It is the cheapest method that yields n-6 ≤ 60%, EPA+DPA ≥ 13%, and DHA ≥ 22%. (These are the highest levels of omega-3 that I can justify with data, but I don't think we know the exact optimum yet.) I would switch to 1000 mg EPA/DHA if I wanted to maximize aromatase activity.

Great info Candace,

BMI should also be a determining factor here, aromatase is further influenced by higher BMI rates, and I mean not in the healthy way.

Joanna, NBE for bio-males can also be influenced by a number of other factors including interactions of other prescription meds, so caution is advised and checking with your PCP can't hurt either. Prolactin, Progesterone and HGH (Somatropin) IGF-1 also have an impact on NBE, massage, and using a breast pump can help too.

Hi Joanna and welcome,

I wanted to give you some info on your plan if that's ok. There's a concern in the medical community about men consuming FSO for the following reasons:

Some men worry that taking flaxseed oil might increase their chance of getting prostate cancer because of the alpha-linolenic acid that flaxseed oil contains. Researchers are still trying to figure out the role of alpha-linolenic acid in prostate cancer. Some studies suggest that alpha-linolenic acid may increase risk or make existing prostate cancer worse, but other studies find no connection. Nevertheless, the alpha-linolenic acid in flaxseed oil doesn’t seem to be a problem. Alpha-linolenic acid from plant sources, such as flaxseed, does not seem to affect prostate cancer risk, although alpha-linolenic acid from dairy and meat sources has been linked in some studies with prostate cancer.
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-990-FLAXSEED%20OIL.aspx?activeIngredientId=990&activeIngredientName=FLAXSEED%20OIL

FSO also has the potential to be an aromatase inhibitor:

GLA-Gamma-Linolenic Acid

GLA- a fatty acid found primarily in vegetable oils. It is sold as a dietary supplement for a variety of human health problems. Here's a list of common GLA's and there uses or treatments for NBE.

Borage oil-The oil helps regulate hormones and lowers blood pressure, 3x more GLA than EPO, massage, galactogogue-increases breast milk in lactating mothers, Fibrocystic breast pain, anti-androgen

Evening Primrose Oil- massage, Fibrocystic breast pain, treats hot flashes, relieves PMS symptoms, relieves Eczema, hormone balance, fights breast tumors

Flaxseed oil-Lignan, massage, omega-3 fatty acids, Flax seed oil can increase prolactin, at the cost of lowering estrogen, (lignans inhibit aromatase), helps with breast pain.
Inhibition of human aromatase by mammalian lignans and isoflavonoid phytoestrogens
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/096007609390022O

Coconut oil-makes connective tissues stronger for that much desired softness and elasticity. superb antioxidant activities that neutralize free radicals and slowing down aging, aids in breast feeding, Coconut oil is nature's richest source of MCFAs."

Precautions

________________________________________________________________

Because of the potential for side effects and interactions with medications, dietary supplements should be taken only under the supervision of a knowledgeable healthcare provider.

Omega-6 supplements, including GLA and EPO, should not be used if you have a seizure disorder because there have been reports of these supplements inducing seizures.

Borage seed oil,and possibly other sources of GLA, should not be used during pregnancy because they may be harmful to the fetus and induce early labor.

Doses of GLA greater than 3,000 mg per day should be avoided because, at that point, production of AA-Arachidonic Acid(rather than DGLA) may increase.

FG dosage might be on the high side, SP is anti-estrogenic so I'd consider another AA. Are you seeing (feeling) any stomach discomfort on your current plan dosages?.

Good luck.

Thank You to everyone for your advice, it's very much appreciated.

I have had no stomach discomfort with the current plan and I have seen some noticeable growth using it for the 3 months. I am in good health 49 yrs old, last prostate check was good and taking no other prescription meds. Last checkup showed cholesterol was slightly high, my PCP prescribed Crestor but I was having a few side effects from it, tired and muscle aches, generally made me feel blah. I really don't like taking prescription meds unless absolutely necessary so I switched to 500mg garlic daily and have had good results since.

My PM arrived shortly after my last post and I have started on it but have been ramping up the dosage from the start. Began at 500mg for 4 days, then 1000mg for 4 days, currently at 1500mg / per day along with using the PM cream for daily massage twice a day. I've continued pumping once per day. So should I get to the 2000mg/day as Clara suggested and hold at that level until I see any noticeable results?

Ive stopped FG and FSO but have continued SP at 1000mg /day and Maco at 500mg and added 500mg calcium /day to aid in PM absorption.

I had considered switching back to FSO for massage only when the PM cream supply runs out, but given the possible increase in prostrate cancer (depending on which study you follow) would it be better to use coconut oil or something else?

If SP is anti-estrogenic what other AA would you recommend?

Thanks again for your help.

Joanna

Were you taking coenzyme Q10 with the statin? Statins inhibit CoQ10 synthesis and CoQ10 is required for energy production. 100 mg is what I take.

I like Reishi for 5-AR inhibition.

Hang on to the FG in case you need progesterone and/or prolactin later on.

Were you taking coenzyme Q10 with the statin? Statins inhibit CoQ10 synthesis and CoQ10 is required for energy production. 100 mg is what I take.

I like Reishi for 5-AR inhibition.

Hang on to the FG in case you need progesterone and/or prolactin later on.

My GP never recommended CoQ10 along with the statin, but then again he doesnt believe that herbals have any value (bit of a quack) Good to know though if I ever wind up back on Crestor or another statin

Thanks Candace, the Reishi looks very interesting, can I find it in a Wellness store or is it something that needs to be ordered online?

Oh I will definitely hang on to the FG for a while, I still have a pretty good supply left. I had figured that it has worked fairly well for me up to this point and if the PM doesn't have decent results I can always go back.

Thanks

Joanna

This product has the ReishiMax extract that was used in the impressive studies.

This product seems close enough and is cheaper than ReishiMax. It's the triterpenes that do the 5-AR inhibition, so that's the metric to compare. The polysaccharides just help the immune system fight cancer.