[GoneGirl]

When first I discovered that I was a crossdreamer (a crossdreamer is a gender-variant person who is aroused by fantasies of being or becoming the opposite sex), and first came out to my wife about my nature, I told her that my gender identity was 70% male and 30% female. Today, I would update that to closer to 50/50. Was it always 50/50 and I simply wasn't aware of it, or has NBE, and the effects of estrogen, caused the shift?

If the latter, wonder if I should expect a further shifting of my gender identity. Could I reach the point where my female side begins to dominate?

Clara,

I think it depends on how flexible and encompassing your gender identity is. What is your optimal gender identity? I don't know.

If NBE herbs start to alter your mental health beyond your comfort levels, I would expect you would start to feel ever-increasing levels of anxiety and perhaps even despair. It wouldn't be unheard of I think that if things went too far you would have serious second thoughts about pursuing NBE.

Maybe the question to ask yourself isn't whether you could reach the point of being mostly "female minded," but how comfortable you would feel about such a possibility.

Yes, I agree with you, Flame, and I am looking for those feelings that would indicate I've taken things too far. I suspect that I will probably overshoot my comfort level before the doubts, anxiety, or whatever appear. I can also look to other forum members for guidance. Many of us are at different stages of transition and can serve as models of what could lie down the road for me.

So, who are my models, and what are they telling me? Certainly Sammie, Elisa, and Eva Marie are further along the path than I. I can see myself going where Sammie is today, while Elisa's at a point that's a little scary to me. I can't see myself going as far as Eva has, it just doesn't feel right for me.

But.....I have to remind myself that 6 months ago I didn't think I would ever step out of the closet, and, as you know, that is exactly what I'm about to do. Will that be an uplifting experience, as it has for Sammie, or will I find it disturbing in some way? My wife is coming to. Might that backfire? There's no way to know until I take that next step. Right now I anticipate only good things to come.

Clara

[Elisaustin]

Clara sweetie did anybody ever tell you that you worry to much?
You will be fine. Follow Sammies lead dress accordingly.
My biggest dilemma out and about is picking the right restroom and my blonde moments which have always got me in trouble no matter what mode I am in.

[EvaMarie]

I dont think NBE or HRT can change gender identity at all...

Everything Ive done so far I wanted to do before starting any of this... What I thought and think is possible for me is a different story though...

It CAN however remove doubts you might have about whether or not your expression of your true self is possible or even the right thing to do... I mean feminization would be very disturbing to someone who didnt already have some degree of a femme gender identity Id think...

I know for myself the more femme I get the better I feel and the more I want and the more possibilities I can see that werent as in reach or realistic before starting this... Of course being bio males we have doubts and this certainly isnt an easy thing to do...

I think that once progress starts and you can start to see the girl in the mirror it can take you farther than you ever thought was possible before you started this roller coaster ride

That is why I think it is important to know what you want and be careful what you wish for before starting NBE or HRT, you just might get it

[Elisaustin]

Well put Eva.
Thinking about it,
It does not really change gender identity but enhances it and compliments it. The true identity is already there to start with be it male or female.

[GoneGirl]

Clara sweetie did anybody ever tell you that you worry to much?

Huh, I like to think of it as being future focused, but others see it differently....lol.

Clara (worrying about being a worrier)

[GoneGirl]

I think that once progress starts and you can start to see the girl in the mirror it can take you farther than you ever thought was possible before you started this roller coaster ride

That is why I think it is important to know what you want and be careful what you wish for before starting NBE or HRT, you just might get it

That bold phrase above goes to the heart of the question, Eve. I can agree that one's cross gender potential is fixed, but like other things, realizing your potential becomes a matter of developing it. Is one's gender identity the hidden potential we have, or is it the realized expression? I think it's the latter, and for me, NBE was the catalyst for bringing it out, making it real.

Unfortunately, it's not always easy to know what you want at the outset of taking up NBE. For many, like myself, it was an attempt to resolve nagging questions. I envy those whose gender identity is skewed to one end of the spectrum or the other, whether they are cis or trans. I'm too much a 'tweenie' to be confident of my destiny.

Clara

[Miranda-nata-est]

I just wonder whether, at times, we just try to rationalise all this a bit too much...


I guess for all of us, we are to some extent making decisions about our futures and how anything we might do will impact on others - but, speaking personally, I don't give a lot of weight to any of this. I think attempting to form an absolute rationalised view of what I am doing to myself and more importantly 'why' , speaking personally, is nigh on impossible. I am just doing what seems right on the day.

There are many things which change our own perception of ourselves - some of which we in control of (which we may or may not decide to exercise control over) and many of which we are not.

I think I would have to question whether NBE would, of itself, cause anyone to change gender identity, having said that, I don't really know. Personally, I regularly query why I am playing in this fire. I know the likelihood is that I will get burned - but, for now, I am enjoying the ride.

Am I becoming female? I don't know. I actually don't know what 'more female' means. There are female caricatures which we seem to be the goal of a number of folk here - but I see the gender issue as more of a sliding scale with fully male at one end and fully female at the other - but this, in itself raises a huge problem - there are females with very male characteristics and vica versa - so how do we define male and female biologically, behaviourally or emotionally - the more I consider it, the more confused I become!!!!!

So, my answer is probably that I think NBE can just muddy the water still further!!, people who play with NBE are probably sitting on a gender fence, those who pursue NBE with the goal of swapping gender have already cast their vote.


Having said that, will those who 'play with NBE' come to question their genetic ID - maybe - I would suggest that suddenly running one's system on a prevalence of E rather than T will inevitably have consequences - but probably, eventually, ones innate character will appear - be that fully male, female or maybe just somewhere, possibly changing, between.


M x

[GoneGirl]

Thanks for your input. Miranda. I can tell you've spent time thinking about the implications of NBE quite a bit. That's good.

Many share a 'go with the flow' attitude about their gender issues, and one can argue that it makes a lot of sense to take on that philosophy. It's the one I elected personally. It's a journey of self discovery first and foremost. One cannot predict where the journey will end, so why try? Do what feels right.

There have been many contributors to this forum who have gone on to other things, having reached a dead end in their journey, or having lost interest in dwelling on their gender issues once their transition reached a satisfactory conclusion. Seldom do we hear from their final accounts.

My purpose in starting this thread was mainly to discuss one of the possible consequences of shifting your hormone balance via NBE. Can doing so lead to places we never expected to go?

Many of us are discovering our female potential very late in life. Some of us are in retirement or are approaching retirement. This can be a very vulnerable stage in our lives.

We boomers have been inculcated with the idea that finding personal happiness trumps all other considerations in life, or at least makes it a worthy goal. We bought into the mandra to the point that we risk everything we've built throughout our lives in response to the siren's song of fulfilling our long suppressed gender identity. Do we appreciate the incredible risks involved as we savor the promised rewards?

The truth is, the real key to happiness late in life is financial security without which there can be no happiness, only deprivation and struggle. This is the ultimate slap in face for us 'tweenies' who have delayed gratification of our gender expression for our families, our jobs, our own welfare, only to risk undoing it all by finally coming clean about who we are under the incredible strain of GD, and maybe finding ourselves abandoned. Believe me, it happens.

For many there is no alternative. Some will literally die without a way to escape the torment of their unfulfilled transgenderism. Some will take the jump and find a peace that they never knew. Others will go on struggling to hold their world together for the sake of _______ (fill in the blank). The latter manage to live out their unsatisfactory lives because somehow, they resist the temptation to let the genie out of the bottle. Others, like me, let the genie out of the PM bottle and revel in the new horizons that are opened to us. But the question always lurks in the background: What price freedom?

I'm not advocating a life of depression, anguish, and personal struggle to deal with gender dysphoria. I think that finding your rightful place as your rightful gender in the world is important to achieve any real quality of life. What I am saying is the there is no guarantee of a better life after transition. One can simply exchange one form of anxiety for another. Whether NBE changes or simply reveals one's gender identity is not really as important as what the outcome of that process brings forth. It can be a long delayed period of personal fulfillment and happiness, or the beginning of a nightmare even more onerous than what existed before.

Choose wisely my dears,

Clara

[Elisaustin]

This morning I got up and looked out the window and saw
two rabbits in my little garden.
In the past I would have got the pellet gun and shot them.
Now instead I ran to Rural King and bought rabbit food.
Rewired comes to mind.

[Samantha Rogers]

Awesome, Elisa! I have had similar moments.

Here's my 2 cents. Yes, on one hand I can and for most of my life have kept the two "roles" quite separate. But I hate it. Pure and simple. Thats where the problems come from. Because separated neither one is quite me. And so there is anxiety and artifice in either.
What I am seeking is authenticity.
What I am seeking is a place of comfort in between where, regardless of how I am dressed, the essential person living inside is centered and balanced and content.
It isn't a matter of how I look, but how I feel inside and how that translates organically into how I act, speak and react to the world. It has been confusing and is difficult.... but I am getting there. It feels good. It feels a little better every day.
It's worth the trouble.