I would like to chime in with my experience of using pm (but not sp) for a year.

Erections are still possible for me, however I have to be in the mood to get aroused. Thankfully, erections no longer come at a drop of a hat for me. If I lose focus and get distracted, the desire and erection quickly fades away. Every once in awhile my sex drive seems to spike suddenly, but otherwise I mostly have the mood of indifference towards sex, porn, mastrubation, etc. Pre-NBE days, ejaculation was the most pleasurable part for me. Now it's the stimulation and build-up that I like the most.

I concur with all that you've said about PM Flamesabers. Both my wife and I are thoroughly enjoying the less irritable, more graceful and loving person that it makes me. Even WITHOUT telling her I went off PM over Easter weekend, she picked up on the change in my demeanor right away. Like you, the need to satisfy myself by masturbation and porn has all but disappeared and for me, the need to "finish" during intimacy has decreased as well much to the delight of my wife. It has become very loving and and all about pleasing her since going on PM. And strangely, when I DON'T finish, I find myself doting over her for days afterwards but not at all in a lustful way. It sure is nice to be rid of that damn, over-the-top sex drive! I'm just a better person on PM.

Doodlebug, maybe just taking pm without sp may be the way for you to pursue NBE and have still a sexual relationship with your spouse?

Well, that's what I WAS doing and everything seemed to be "working" fine so going back to it wont be a problem. I'm going to monitor and reduce or drop the SP as needed so I can keep my wife happy ...which makes me happy. Thanks!

Hello everyone.

As the title states, this is the random thoughts thread I said I'll create.

So, what's on everyone's mind?

well, keeping with the spirits of random thoughts, I found an interesting article here http://www.counselheal.com/articles/4852/20130411/bras-make-breasts-saggier-15-year-french-study-reveals.htm

The condenced version of this small article is, bra's degrade supporting breast tissue, causing them to sag when exposed to gravity. Also its not even 100% certain that it does help alleviate back pains, and some cases make it worse. anybody care to discuss? also sorry about the advertisements on the link.

It's been debated elsewhere... Some people think it's hogwash.

My thoughts? Even if it's true I simply can't not wear a bra.

well, keeping with the spirits of random thoughts, I found an interesting article here http://www.counselheal.com/articles/4852/20130411/bras-make-breasts-saggier-15-year-french-study-reveals.htm

The condenced version of this small article is, bra's degrade supporting breast tissue, causing them to sag when exposed to gravity. Also its not even 100% certain that it does help alleviate back pains, and some cases make it worse. anybody care to discuss? also sorry about the advertisements on the link.

I think this makes a lot of sense considering how it's typical that the body's muscles and such will deteriorate from a lack of use. For example, astronauts who live in space for extended periods of time lose bone strength and such because their bodies aren't working against Earth's gravity anymore. I think there's a saying if bras really keep breasts firm, older women who have been wearing bras for most of their life would have firm and not sagging breasts.

There are other reasons though why women wear bras that aren't mentioned in the article such as modesty, conforming to social expectations and physical support when exercising. With the latter, I'm far from having fully developed breasts and I can personally understand why women would prefer to wear a sports bra than to go without when exercising. At my stage of development, the bouncing isn't uncomfortable, but it isn't a pleasant feeling either.

I suppose if breasts were desexulaized and going braless wasn't so stigmatized, more women might be willing to see if going braless or not might be in their best interest.

I think this makes a lot of sense considering how it's typical that the body's muscles and such will deteriorate from a lack of use. For example, astronauts who live in space for extended periods of time lose bone strength and such because their bodies aren't working against Earth's gravity anymore. I think there's a saying if bras really keep breasts firm, older women who have been wearing bras for most of their life would have firm and not sagging breasts.

The problem with that reasoning is that our breasts aren't held up by muscles, but by ligaments...

As for the latter... Well... Naysayers mostly think it doesn't make a difference really for sagging to wear one or not wear one... At least, permanently. While wearing the bra it has the cosmetic benefit of disguising sag, temporarily, regardless of how much your breasts sag without.

Which since it's ligaments that support the breasts, not muscles, this actually makes the MOST sense... Those ligaments are going to stretch with age basically no matter what we do... especially if you have a sudden inflation and then deflation that's common with milk production post-pregnancy...

The only thing that MIGHT help, but ONLY with preventing, is taking collagen during nursing might strengthen the ligaments enough to prevent the milk producing breasts from causing sag afterwards. Maybe. But once the damage is done, your only choice is to somehow develop enough volume for how much stretch your ligaments have had... Which a lot of the women here try to do.

The problem with that reasoning is that our breasts aren't held up by muscles, but by ligaments...

As for the latter... Well... Naysayers mostly think it doesn't make a difference really for sagging to wear one or not wear one... At least, permanently. While wearing the bra it has the cosmetic benefit of disguising sag, temporarily, regardless of how much your breasts sag without.

Which since it's ligaments that support the breasts, not muscles, this actually makes the MOST sense... Those ligaments are going to stretch with age basically no matter what we do... especially if you have a sudden inflation and then deflation that's common with milk production post-pregnancy...

The only thing that MIGHT help, but ONLY with preventing, is taking collagen during nursing might strengthen the ligaments enough to prevent the milk producing breasts from causing sag afterwards. Maybe. But once the damage is done, your only choice is to somehow develop enough volume for how much stretch your ligaments have had... Which a lot of the women here try to do.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to understand how connective tissue/fascia behaves in response to stress. Without a much too lengthy discourse into the physical properties of connective tissue (stress/strain curves, plastic vs elastic deformation in conjunction with the cellular and extracellular components of fascia, and all that), suffice it to say that highly credible research shows unless the tissue is regularly exposed to normal amounts of stress/tension, it will start to loose it's ability to withstand that strain. In effect, it will get weaker over time. I won't bore anyone with the technicalities of the studies since they weren't done on breast tissue, but ligaments are ligaments, connective tissue is connective tissue and its function and response to stress is fairly uniform throughout the body. Take the normal stress of supporting the breasts away by wearing a bra, and the ligaments get weaker. Restore that stress to the ligaments and they get stronger. It really is that simple.

In addition, read the sites I linked to previously for the testimonials of women who have stopped wearing bras who have noticed that their breasts are firmer and perkier since stopping. One or two or three might be fooling themselves, but a preponderance of even anecdotal evidence begins to paint a different picture.

Happy reading.

Grrrr! Where are the rest of you getting your Ainterol brand PM? I ordered my first bottle from Amazon and it took 5-6 weeks to arrive. I wasn't going to do that again so this time I ordered from Ainterol.us right before Easter and it still hasn't arrived. Is that normal for the rest of you? I reduced my dose JUST to extend my supply for another 5 days but now I'm afraid I'm going to run out before it arrives. Is there a faster place to order from or do I just need to order that far in advance?

:O No... When I was using Ainterol I'd buy it from the Amazon store and it'd be here within a week, 2 at the outset. Where do you live? EDIT: NVM... It's in your profile... Minnesota... Maybe Minnesota's Postal Service just sucks? I'm in Ohio...

Grrrr! Where are the rest of you getting your Ainterol brand PM? I ordered my first bottle from Amazon and it took 5-6 weeks to arrive. I wasn't going to do that again so this time I ordered from Ainterol.us right before Easter and it still hasn't arrived. Is that normal for the rest of you? I reduced my dose JUST to extend my supply for another 5 days but now I'm afraid I'm going to run out before it arrives. Is there a faster place to order from or do I just need to order that far in advance?

I just started two weeks ago with Ainterol. I ordered it from amazon and it came in a few days. Maybe because it shipped from New York and I'm outside of Philadelphia.
edit: just checked the seller it was Ainterolherbs. Maybe yours is from a different seller.

Always ordered mine from http://www.ainterolherbs.com/

Never took more than a week with standard shipping... I live in the Southeast US.

5-6 weeks? Damn....I got my EV from overseas faster than that lol.