[MistressGeorge]

Please excuse my typos. Im not good at essay writing on mobile phones.

[Samantha Rogers]

Heh, heh, heh.... I have enjoyed this thread immensely! What great fun. Abi, I loved your logical dismemberment (maybe a poor choice of words...). I do love levity!

[AbiDrew85]

And why's it a $64,000 question? You just using the number cuz it sounded heavy? Hyperbole. Misleading vividness. More false analogy. Appeal to Nature. Must I go on?

I'm showing my age, and hopefully you see this before the thread is gone, but many years a go, there was a game show called The $64,000 Question in which a person claiming expertise in a particular area would answer questions of increasing difficulty with correspondingly increasing dollar amounts. Dr. Joyce Brothers (a psychologist who was popular on talk shows in the 70s and 80s) became famous answering questions about either sports in general, or the specific sport of boxing, I'm not sure which. In the 70s, the show was resurrected as The $128,000 Question. I never saw the original, but I did see that newer version. As I recall, the money doubled with each question, thus $100, $200, $400, etc. on up to $64,000 or some similar progression. Since then, it has become a figure of speech to refer to a difficult question as "the $64,000 question."

Oh, ok. I am apparently too young for this to make any sense to me. No problemo, my logic still stands the same. It's still all the same things, for pretty much all the same reasons. Being the "final" question of a game show like that is pretty well choosing the number cuz it sounds heavy. It's still hyperbole.

And I have a feeling this copy is going to stay up. Perhaps because it's actually become a reasonable discussion. The troll is likely already banned, which helps, I'm sure.

It's OK, I won't take all the credit for turning this one around

[AbiDrew85]

This is a very interesting thread
I wish more people woild have constructed logical responses than to attack simply because they feel attacked. She has an opinion, ignore her ass if you dont like it or have constructive things to sah.
On another note, Tibetan you are an amazing soul, Ive always thought and now I was prompted to say it. I am very very spiritual as well. I believe all things existing in our universe is energy. Including us and our enironment. The human experience to me, is this energy within a male or female body: a body. Now while I agree that there are generally accepted ways of viewing gender, they are not concrete. We can see this as they vary not only from person to perspn but also to societies. I think think this hints at the fact that therw is no supposed way a person of any gender SHOULD be that is held as rule or law.The only rule is that females share certain body parts as do males. Nor do I beleive our energy has a specified gender. We are what we are in this universe and honestly being a person in a body is a small part of it. Now I dont agree with having a wrong body as that could never be in my understanding of the universe. I mah once have been a star, a rock or whatever. If I was born male I would love myself no less, I will always be the same me! Your body has a gender, you do not.

We dont all have to agree but at least lets try to understand others so that we may better understand ourselves. Maybe ppl are just addressibg the wrong issues, asvTibetan said.

I'm afraid my very existence brings these views into a position that I cannot reconcile them with my own experience.

I am a Christian, from a Mormon background, with a strong sense of "rightness" in many of the traditions of the People (Native American/Canadian Aborigine). I myself am something like 1/16th of the People.

Due to my background, I didn't quite exactly go on a "spirit quest" like a true member of the People might, but I did do a soul search. And I found myself to be in possession of a female soul. Now a soul is a form of energy, yes, but this energy, in my experience, does possess a gender. And mine is female.

Due to my Mormon Christian background this led me into a very deep discourse with my maker, and I feel that he has done this, with my agreement, so that I may learn and grow in ways that would not have been possible had I been born with the female sex.

Many people who are not gender binary will tell you that gender is a mind thing. I will not refute that, but to me, our mind is merely a window to the soul, and it is the soul that has a gender. The body has a sex. Or maybe it doesn't. But the soul has gender. I imagine there really are girl and boy rocks out there.

[AbiDrew85]

Heh, heh, heh.... I have enjoyed this thread immensely! What great fun. Abi, I loved your logical dismemberment (maybe a poor choice of words...). I do love levity!

I don't know why, but I always feel a need to point out fallacies when I see them glaring back at me in the face.

It's like. OH NO YOU DID NOOOOOT JUST DO THAT!

[MonikaT]

Oh, ok. I am apparently too young for this to make any sense to me. No problemo, my logic still stands the same. It's still all the same things, for pretty much all the same reasons. Being the "final" question of a game show like that is pretty well choosing the number cuz it sounds heavy. It's still hyperbole.

And I have a feeling this copy is going to stay up. Perhaps because it's actually become a reasonable discussion. The troll is likely already banned, which helps, I'm sure.

It's OK, I won't take all the credit for turning this one around

Oh, I wasn't faulting your logic at all. In fact, I enjoyed and appreciated your argument. I was just giving the hyperbole some context. The original show actually is before my time, too, but my parents mentioned it from time to time, then came the re-worked show. Keep in mind, $64,000 was a lot of money in the days when Jeopardy clues ranged from $10-$50 in the first round, and were double that in Double Jeopardy, and I do remember those days. I've actually seen the term used in politics when a news anchor asks a political analyst a tough question, and the analyst responds with, "That's the $64,000 question." Now that I think about it, Dr. Brothers was probably on TV as early as the 60s; I'm just barely too young to remember.

[TibetanPrincess]

Ahh... thank you!


Many would be so envious of those who reside as humans in the spirit world as
they can shift from their male side to their female sides and sexually thrive
Its so not fair! I am jealous of them. Plus flying is another thing we cant quite do here talk about the most freeing feeling. Lucky bastards... hopefully pple know not to feel sick inside because they want to be something they. Aren't on the outside.

This is a very interesting thread
I wish more people woild have constructed logical responses than to attack simply because they feel attacked. She has an opinion, ignore her ass if you dont like it or have constructive things to sah.
On another note, Tibetan you are an amazing soul, Ive always thought and now I was prompted to say it. I am very very spiritual as well. I believe all things existing in our universe is energy. Including us and our enironment. The human experience to me, is this energy within a male or female body: a body. Now while I agree that there are generally accepted ways of viewing gender, they are not concrete. We can see this as they vary not only from person to perspn but also to societies. I think think this hints at the fact that therw is no supposed way a person of any gender SHOULD be that is held as rule or law.The only rule is that females share certain body parts as do males. Nor do I beleive our energy has a specified gender. We are what we are in this universe and honestly being a person in a body is a small part of it. Now I dont agree with having a wrong body as that could never be in my understanding of the universe. I mah once have been a star, a rock or whatever. If I was born male I would love myself no less, I will always be the same me! Your body has a gender, you do not.

We dont all have to agree but at least lets try to understand others so that we may better understand ourselves. Maybe ppl are just addressibg the wrong issues, asvTibetan said.

[PattiJT]

Okaaaay. Guess I have to admit to being the odd-one-out. Other than Z possibly posting this in the wrong forum, (not 100% sure of that), there are some points made that it seems to me should be given some consideration before the silver hammers come out. I'd expect this to be an American position, "shoot first and ask questions later". We seem to be turning over every rock to justify our positions rather than try to understand what she's saying. The comments flying around here show us to be as narrow-minded and unaccepting of other views as we accuse her of being. I hope we're not that full of ourselves.

Furthermore, I am much more offended that religion has been injected into some of the conversations here, than I am by what Z had to say. For those of you who have felt it necessary to notify us of your "affilition", I will only say, JUDGE NOT! Religion has no place here. We should care not about anyone's religion, if they have one. If you're that taken up with whatever deity you suscribe to, then you should never be considering altering his "creation", YOU. Would my "affilition" matter to any of you? It had better not! If you're going to express how devout you are, then ask us how to screw with your creators creation, and want us to advise as to the best way to do so, then I, (and maybe only I), have to question your commitment, either to your religion, or to yourself and the rest of us. You can't have it both ways. If you want the advice, then you find the way to deal with the religious consequences. If you can find a way to do that, and continue here, we'll assume that it really isn't a big enough deal to need to be bringing up religion here anymore. Fair enough?

For any male or female to speak of what the mind of the opposite sex might feel like, or be like, would seem to be total conjecture. There would be a hundred different opinions, none of which would probably be correct. We can only authoritatively speak from experience, or through scientifically proven evidence, and I am aware of no-one who has been able to mind-shift back and forth so as to provide that information. Maybe there is a swami somewhere who will prove me wrong.

IMO is a phrase that should probably be prefacing a few more of the comments here. For instance, who among us is the know-all absolute authority on souls, an afterlife, or re-incarnation?? Been there? My wife, as a Bhuddist, would have a different opinion than stated here by some. Does that make her right? There's only one way to know, and if you're still of this world, you really don't.

So, I'm ruffling a few feathers, but that went both ways. Maybe we do need a "mother hen" to keep the chicks in line. Please be considerate, folks, we're all here to learn and share. While this may all be "anonymous, we can still have our standards of decency. Patti

[Pansy-Mae]

I completely agree Patti, thank you.

[AbiDrew85]

Okaaaay. Guess I have to admit to being the odd-one-out. Other than Z possibly posting this in the wrong forum, (not 100% sure of that), there are some points made that it seems to me should be given some consideration before the silver hammers come out. I'd expect this to be an American position, "shoot first and ask questions later". We seem to be turning over every rock to justify our positions rather than try to understand what she's saying. The comments flying around here show us to be as narrow-minded and unaccepting of other views as we accuse her of being. I hope we're not that full of ourselves.

I'm sorry... But what they posted WAS obvious flamebait. You do notice that I DID help turn it into a reasonable discourse, however.

Furthermore, I am much more offended that religion has been injected into some of the conversations here, than I am by what Z had to say. For those of you who have felt it necessary to notify us of your "affilition", I will only say, JUDGE NOT! Religion has no place here. We should care not about anyone's religion, if they have one. If you're that taken up with whatever deity you suscribe to, then you should never be considering altering his "creation", YOU. Would my "affilition" matter to any of you? It had better not! If you're going to express how devout you are, then ask us how to screw with your creators creation, and want us to advise as to the best way to do so, then I, (and maybe only I), have to question your commitment, either to your religion, or to yourself and the rest of us. You can't have it both ways. If you want the advice, then you find the way to deal with the religious consequences. If you can find a way to do that, and continue here, we'll assume that it really isn't a big enough deal to need to be bringing up religion here anymore. Fair enough?

Honestly, I only referred to my own position on the matter of religion to put into perspective my own position. Period. I had no intentions of pushing it at anyone else.

I do have to beg you consider the logic of your argument considering devoutness and altering creation. Why would God give us the means, power, and knowledge, to do things if we are not to do them under absolutely any circumstances? If someone is ill do we not heal them? When Christ came across people who were not whole for whatever reason, he changed them, did he not? I am not whole. I have been provided the means of getting myself closer to wholeness.

Besides, I've always done my own research. Much of the time it's me who's doing the guiding

For any male or female to speak of what the mind of the opposite sex might feel like, or be like, would seem to be total conjecture. There would be a hundred different opinions, none of which would probably be correct. We can only authoritatively speak from experience, or through scientifically proven evidence, and I am aware of no-one who has been able to mind-shift back and forth so as to provide that information. Maybe there is a swami somewhere who will prove me wrong.

This is almost true... except change sex to gender, and I make absolutely no claims to understanding how you boys think or feel or whatever

Trust me... Boys are as alien to me as girls are to you.

IMO is a phrase that should probably be prefacing a few more of the comments here. For instance, who among us is the know-all absolute authority on souls, an afterlife, or re-incarnation?? Been there? My wife, as a Bhuddist, would have a different opinion than stated here by some. Does that make her right? There's only one way to know, and if you're still of this world, you really don't.

I may not be over-using a single form for indicating something to be a personally held belief, but I do believe I am sufficiently indicating the fact in a much more educated fashion.

So, I'm ruffling a few feathers, but that went both ways. Maybe we do need a "mother hen" to keep the chicks in line. Please be considerate, folks, we're all here to learn and share. While this may all be "anonymous, we can still have our standards of decency. Patti

Nah, not really. You're contributing to a discussion. Ruffling feathers would be posting more explosive vitriol like where this thread started out.