Hi,
I certainly didn't intend to be catty, but I suppose I'm old enough to count to 10 and save into drafts for later re-wording. I was very upset to see Beverley go and I reacted badly to what I felt was a spiteful comment by Chrissie. In retrospect, I feel that my reaction wasn't acceptable for someone my age. I could have said what I said in a more tactful, less cruel way, and I am very, very sorry about it. It's only a partial defence, but I do find that PM makes me respond to situations in a much more emotional fashion (which can be good and bad), and maybe I let that get the better of me.
As for Beverley, I don't regret trying to persuade her to see things from another perspective. She herself said that TSs at support groups would try to dissuade people from GRS in her leaving thread. I had no idea that what I said would result in her leaving, though. I'm really sorry about that, and I still agonise about it - daily.
My problem, if it is a problem, is that I feel others' pain. When I perceive, rightly or wrongly, that someone is taking a self-destructive course (and I have, several times, mostly in my family), I have two options; cut them out of my life, which is what often happens, or try to help them to at least see what I see, in the hope that I can alert them to the possible (or certain, depending) danger of what they are doing to themselves and their loved ones.
I hope what I say always has a logical, rational basis for discussion. In this case, I knew how my wife would feel, and I projected onto that, however wrongly; I just wanted Beverly to be absolutely certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that her wife really did fully buy in to all her long term plans. For all I knew, that may be the case; but there is a difference in being sure about something, and being persuaded that something you want to be true, is true.
If all of that makes me nosey, interfering, pushy etc. I suppose that may be true; but I will always go away if told to; but Beverly never did tell me to stop or go away, though I told her to tell me if that was what she wished. But she just left. That's what I don't understand.
I think in a community like this, you can either be like a technical group of computer hackers asking questions and receiving answers on a strictly impersonal basis which is fine or, you can be like a real community, going the extra mile to help one another with problems even if you haven't been asked to. (How many little old ladies die alone because they don't ask for help and the community doesn't want to get involved?)
It's never been stated which of those two forums this one is, so I suppose it's by common acceptance. However, I would think a community of TG/TS/T* would still be far enough out of the mainstream to want all the community support it can get.
It's hard, when you see the level of personal detail that is talked about here, (the nature of this group is sexual), to know where the line for discussion is drawn and when you cross it!
My pledge to you:
1) if at any time you want me to go away, think I'm being interfering, just say "I don't want to discuss this with you" and I will cease and desist.
2) if you think I'm talking crap, being insensitive, just please tell me and I will retract, reword, do anything I can to achieve John Stuart Mill's goal of aggregate happiness.
What more can I do?
Bryony
I certainly didn't intend to be catty, but I suppose I'm old enough to count to 10 and save into drafts for later re-wording. I was very upset to see Beverley go and I reacted badly to what I felt was a spiteful comment by Chrissie. In retrospect, I feel that my reaction wasn't acceptable for someone my age. I could have said what I said in a more tactful, less cruel way, and I am very, very sorry about it. It's only a partial defence, but I do find that PM makes me respond to situations in a much more emotional fashion (which can be good and bad), and maybe I let that get the better of me.
As for Beverley, I don't regret trying to persuade her to see things from another perspective. She herself said that TSs at support groups would try to dissuade people from GRS in her leaving thread. I had no idea that what I said would result in her leaving, though. I'm really sorry about that, and I still agonise about it - daily.
My problem, if it is a problem, is that I feel others' pain. When I perceive, rightly or wrongly, that someone is taking a self-destructive course (and I have, several times, mostly in my family), I have two options; cut them out of my life, which is what often happens, or try to help them to at least see what I see, in the hope that I can alert them to the possible (or certain, depending) danger of what they are doing to themselves and their loved ones.
I hope what I say always has a logical, rational basis for discussion. In this case, I knew how my wife would feel, and I projected onto that, however wrongly; I just wanted Beverly to be absolutely certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that her wife really did fully buy in to all her long term plans. For all I knew, that may be the case; but there is a difference in being sure about something, and being persuaded that something you want to be true, is true.
If all of that makes me nosey, interfering, pushy etc. I suppose that may be true; but I will always go away if told to; but Beverly never did tell me to stop or go away, though I told her to tell me if that was what she wished. But she just left. That's what I don't understand.
I think in a community like this, you can either be like a technical group of computer hackers asking questions and receiving answers on a strictly impersonal basis which is fine or, you can be like a real community, going the extra mile to help one another with problems even if you haven't been asked to. (How many little old ladies die alone because they don't ask for help and the community doesn't want to get involved?)
It's never been stated which of those two forums this one is, so I suppose it's by common acceptance. However, I would think a community of TG/TS/T* would still be far enough out of the mainstream to want all the community support it can get.
It's hard, when you see the level of personal detail that is talked about here, (the nature of this group is sexual), to know where the line for discussion is drawn and when you cross it!
My pledge to you:
1) if at any time you want me to go away, think I'm being interfering, just say "I don't want to discuss this with you" and I will cease and desist.
2) if you think I'm talking crap, being insensitive, just please tell me and I will retract, reword, do anything I can to achieve John Stuart Mill's goal of aggregate happiness.
What more can I do?
Bryony
Yes, sure,
You see, my worry was: what's the point of having a forum, if there's only one view? Your views are just as valuable. As Julie pointed out, you were not out of order, and the points you made are valid. The flaw is in a basic assumption, that the supportive value of the forum increases if more people agree with each other. It doesn't. The greater the differences, the more people will feel comfortable here.
You see, my worry was: what's the point of having a forum, if there's only one view? Your views are just as valuable. As Julie pointed out, you were not out of order, and the points you made are valid. The flaw is in a basic assumption, that the supportive value of the forum increases if more people agree with each other. It doesn't. The greater the differences, the more people will feel comfortable here.
(01-12-2011, 09:30 PM)Isabelle Wrote: Yes, sure,
You see, my worry was: what's the point of having a forum, if there's only one view? Your views are just as valuable. As Julie pointed out, you were not out of order, and the points you made are valid. The flaw is in a basic assumption, that the supportive value of the forum increases if more people agree with each other. It doesn't. The greater the differences, the more people will feel comfortable here.
Thanks Isabelle, that makes me feel better!
B.
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