(14-10-2014, 04:57 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: ...And how about having the door opened for you? It's the symbolism, of course. A confirmation of having passed as a woman.
Ahhhh! Someone (a middle aged female) DID hold the door for me yesterday but it didn't occur to me that she did it as if for one of her "sisters". I WAS a little surprised that she would hold the door for a "male" coming out. Perhaps she DID take me for a female at a glance. That's cool!
(14-10-2014, 04:57 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: If people could look into your heart, Kari, you'd be ma'am'd everyday...LOL.
Clara
Awh, thanks Clara! If only everyone could see everyone else's HEART!
(14-10-2014, 01:18 AM)Samantha Rogers Wrote: I have seen many examples of marriages foundering over trans issues and only a comparitive few where the marriage has survived.
My marriage has survived and so has the marriages of several others I know who are also transitioning MTFs. The secret seems to be to give your spouse plenty of time to adjust, answer questions and do your best to keep the physical side of the marriage alive. This does not mean that YOU have to perform sexually. There are plenty of "alternatives". It also helps to adjust the approach to love making to a more feminine one, taking longer and working towards the intimacy. Make naughty and make it fun so you can both enjoy things.
Based on a very small sample (local MTFs who I know) I would say that the odds against a marriage surviving are high. It is more likely to break up than survive, but it is not the near certainty that is commonly portrayed. Of 14 MTFs I know well, six of us (including me) have marriages that survived. What we all have in common was that
- We brought our spouses to our support group
- We told them as much as they wanted to know. We did not overload them with information.
- We did not rush our transition
- We are all over 40 with one exception who is in her 30s
Wow, that's just under half that SURVIVE! That's not that far from marriages in general. Thanks for sharing your experience b.rose. Still, I don't want to overlook the ones that didn't make it and perhaps the ones who did but don't have the emotional intimacy most human beings crave. My heart goes out to them. I can't imagine how painful it would be to do this TG thing with a struggling marriage or worse yet a broken one that makes you wonder if YOUR TG is cause of it not working out. Oh, and we can't forget the ones who are unattached and looking for a soul mate who will understand their TG. That's tough too.
I agree with b.rose's advice 100%. Off the top of my head I'd add; make it your goal to tell her EVERYTHING from the past and then let her "green light" every step you take from now on. If you do a good job of sacrificially loving her, it's my contention that any good willed wife will in turn, sacrificially love you also in surprising ways. It takes time and hard work ...and sadly, there are no guarantees.
I agree with b.rose's advice 100%. Off the top of my head I'd add; make it your goal to tell her EVERYTHING from the past and then let her "green light" every step you take from now on. If you do a good job of sacrificially loving her, it's my contention that any good willed wife will in turn, sacrificially love you also in surprising ways. It takes time and hard work ...and sadly, there are no guarantees.
Well, its good to hear when they do survive. My information is obviously subjective as I admitted, based only on those individuals with whom I am familiar. But even so, when a marriage involving a tg person fails it may often be because that marriage already had problems beyond the gender issues faced by one party. Marriages fail every day for all manner of reasons. Gender is never, I suppose, the only reason.
I agree with you, Sammie. Gender alone is not reason enough to dissolve a good marriage. That's the good news. But getting past the gender issues is not easy even in the strongest of marriages.
I think the biggest stumbling block is putting all the attention on the trans partner and overlooking the needs of her mate. One has to look at one's transition as including both partners.
My wife's biggest concern was, I think, her own sense of security. "How do I fit into all this?" was her question. She imagined my following a course that didn't include her, and that ultimately it would result in our marriage being irreparably damaged or worse.
In cases where marriages survived a transition, the wife is almost always an active participant in the process, and the process progresses at a speed she feels comfortable with. But sometimes your mate has to be gently or not so gently pushed.
I know of several trans marriages where the wife is adamantly against it. What do you do in that case? It all depends, again, on the strength of the marriage and the desire for both partners to stay together. Sometimes, it's necessary to force the issue.
I have a good friend whose wife has set severe limits on her freedom to express her feminine side. The result has been to force her into living a secret TG life. IMO, this is deadly for the health of the marriage in the long run. When the secret is eventually discovered, any trust that exists between them will be destroyed. It would be better to force the issues into the open now and work out a solution even if it means risking losing everything. The chances of finding a reasonable compromise are much better when dealing honestly with your partner. Most often the objections of a spouse are based on fear of loss -- loss of social standing, financial security, companionship, etc. Those fears have to be neutralized for acceptance to begin to take root.
The key to a successful transition as a couple is to make progress together. Even tiny baby steps will eventually get to where you need to be, as long as both partners are making those step together. I'm trying to help my friend get back in step with her partner. It's hard, because it means going back to square one. It means finding a way to force a recalcitrant wife to face up to the reality that there is no solution that doesn't include an opportunity for the trans partner to be true to her gender sense.
Well, I've gone on too long on this post already, so I'll end it here by just saying that even as I have achieved progress in my transition with the full support and cooperation of my spouse, I'm always looking for ways to keep us in step as my transition continues. There are still many challenges ahead. So, I stick to the philosophy that nothing happens without getting the "green light". A yellow or red light means finding out why and working on the problem together.
Clara
I think the biggest stumbling block is putting all the attention on the trans partner and overlooking the needs of her mate. One has to look at one's transition as including both partners.
My wife's biggest concern was, I think, her own sense of security. "How do I fit into all this?" was her question. She imagined my following a course that didn't include her, and that ultimately it would result in our marriage being irreparably damaged or worse.
In cases where marriages survived a transition, the wife is almost always an active participant in the process, and the process progresses at a speed she feels comfortable with. But sometimes your mate has to be gently or not so gently pushed.
I know of several trans marriages where the wife is adamantly against it. What do you do in that case? It all depends, again, on the strength of the marriage and the desire for both partners to stay together. Sometimes, it's necessary to force the issue.
I have a good friend whose wife has set severe limits on her freedom to express her feminine side. The result has been to force her into living a secret TG life. IMO, this is deadly for the health of the marriage in the long run. When the secret is eventually discovered, any trust that exists between them will be destroyed. It would be better to force the issues into the open now and work out a solution even if it means risking losing everything. The chances of finding a reasonable compromise are much better when dealing honestly with your partner. Most often the objections of a spouse are based on fear of loss -- loss of social standing, financial security, companionship, etc. Those fears have to be neutralized for acceptance to begin to take root.
The key to a successful transition as a couple is to make progress together. Even tiny baby steps will eventually get to where you need to be, as long as both partners are making those step together. I'm trying to help my friend get back in step with her partner. It's hard, because it means going back to square one. It means finding a way to force a recalcitrant wife to face up to the reality that there is no solution that doesn't include an opportunity for the trans partner to be true to her gender sense.
Well, I've gone on too long on this post already, so I'll end it here by just saying that even as I have achieved progress in my transition with the full support and cooperation of my spouse, I'm always looking for ways to keep us in step as my transition continues. There are still many challenges ahead. So, I stick to the philosophy that nothing happens without getting the "green light". A yellow or red light means finding out why and working on the problem together.
Clara
I had a personal earth quake recently. It was the culmination of many things that happened too quickly in succession. On Tuesday evening, we had our usual twice per month local support group for TG. As usual, it tends to get me pretty happy and occasionally stirs up emotions and thoughts and although this meeting was nothing out of the ordinary, it still did that much. On Wednesday, for the first time ever, I saw a psychiatrist. OBVIOUSLY, that stirred up some feeling but they didn't immediately set in. It went far better than I ever imagined and felt like he really understood me when we were finished. He referred me to an endocrinologist and we will review the recommendations later when the blood tests come back. Later that same day, I was completely, unquestionably "mistaken" for a woman from behind by a man and in front of a female friend and coworker. When I turned around, my face betrayed me but it was thrilling nonetheless. On Thursday morning, I got my (long) hair touched up with a little color and trim but just for the fun of it, my hair dresser straightened and styled it for me. Nothing unusual there but it was SHOCKING when she spun me around. It looked SO feminine my heart was doing cartwheels while my head was reeling from what it was seeing and the fact that I was soon to be seen in public and by my coworkers with VERY girl hair. Besides a bunch of strangers, only one coworker saw me (same one as yesterday) and it went OK. However, by Friday morning, everything was settling in on me and I became overwhelmed and I broke down at work (more on exactly why later). An hour later after pulling myself together with Sammie's help, I talked to another coworker about my (now "normal") hair and showed her a couple pics from yesterday. She was shocked but said it was really "pretty" and asked me if I liked it. The way she asked though, makes me think she knows I WOULD like it... more to worry about. Friday night, we apprehensively went to our couples in transition support group in Minneapolis. I thought it would be too much for me but as it turned out, it was actually really good. It's not for me but rather for my wife and our relationship.
...So that was what I did and what happened. Now for the emotions. Prior to this week, I was of the mindset that I should continue to present male and have brief forays into feminine territory. That was the compromise I created between what I wanted and what I thought I HAD to do for the sake of those around me that I love. My psychiatrist simply asked me why, if I'm female, would I continue to present male (what I've never wanted) rather than BE female inside and out but present as male (or tomboy) as needed. It was a valid question to which I had no good answer. I DO want to present as my true self all the time but for a bunch of reasons, told myself I shouldn't. What began to sink in this week is that I just can't do the compromise - it's too painful and I need to go all the way. The thought of it makes my heart leap for joy. And here's the kicker, I also began to believe that I could pass. Enough people are really pegging me as female and with a change of attire, some makeup and confidence, I believe it's possible. That was an utterly shocking epiphany. It's what threw me into emotional v-tech. I was happy, scared, elated, fearful, anxious and a host of other emotions within minutes of each other for 24 hours. I was on the verge of trembling before I finally broke down at work on Friday morning. As if that wasn't enough, my wife was sending me strong signals that she is coming to terms with the fact that I'm not going to be able to contain this forever and full transition is inevitable ...and she's willing to stick with me through it despite enormous cost to her. So while I'm realizing that the compromise is flawed and that I really want to go all the way, and that I could really pass with a little more work, she's accepting the fact that that's our destiny. Can you imagine? And that's what our couples in transition group is for. It's basically for the relationship of the couple and the spouse of the transitioning partner to get support from those who have or are enduring a transition. So last night we sat there for a couple hours listening to the horror stories spouses have and are going through and the success stories of those who made it until it was our turn to lament the situation we find ourselves in and get feedback from the group. Needless to say, it normally stirs up a lot of stuff but last night we came away stronger and more aware of what lies ahead for us. What I thought I could hide came into the light 2 years ago. I begged God to take it away and change me. This fall, I realized he DID change me in a way I didn't expect, he gave me self acceptance and a mission to help those who will go down this same path. As early as a month ago, I thought I could remain in this place of compromise but this week has confirmed that I am going onward. I'm being swept downstream. There are rapids ahead but there are others calling out signals from the banks. We are going to make it.
I owe a special thanks to Samantha Rogers for helping pull me through Friday morning. You are a very dear friend Sammie! Among many other things, this is a jewel that, "stopped me dead in my tracks":
"What you are missing is something you will only get from being dressed and moving among others. You are trans. Your identity is female. But identity is only partly about how we feel inside. It also needs the reinforcement that comes from having others treat us as female. You need to feel that, sis. It will stop you dead in your tracks. Everything will become clear."
...So that was what I did and what happened. Now for the emotions. Prior to this week, I was of the mindset that I should continue to present male and have brief forays into feminine territory. That was the compromise I created between what I wanted and what I thought I HAD to do for the sake of those around me that I love. My psychiatrist simply asked me why, if I'm female, would I continue to present male (what I've never wanted) rather than BE female inside and out but present as male (or tomboy) as needed. It was a valid question to which I had no good answer. I DO want to present as my true self all the time but for a bunch of reasons, told myself I shouldn't. What began to sink in this week is that I just can't do the compromise - it's too painful and I need to go all the way. The thought of it makes my heart leap for joy. And here's the kicker, I also began to believe that I could pass. Enough people are really pegging me as female and with a change of attire, some makeup and confidence, I believe it's possible. That was an utterly shocking epiphany. It's what threw me into emotional v-tech. I was happy, scared, elated, fearful, anxious and a host of other emotions within minutes of each other for 24 hours. I was on the verge of trembling before I finally broke down at work on Friday morning. As if that wasn't enough, my wife was sending me strong signals that she is coming to terms with the fact that I'm not going to be able to contain this forever and full transition is inevitable ...and she's willing to stick with me through it despite enormous cost to her. So while I'm realizing that the compromise is flawed and that I really want to go all the way, and that I could really pass with a little more work, she's accepting the fact that that's our destiny. Can you imagine? And that's what our couples in transition group is for. It's basically for the relationship of the couple and the spouse of the transitioning partner to get support from those who have or are enduring a transition. So last night we sat there for a couple hours listening to the horror stories spouses have and are going through and the success stories of those who made it until it was our turn to lament the situation we find ourselves in and get feedback from the group. Needless to say, it normally stirs up a lot of stuff but last night we came away stronger and more aware of what lies ahead for us. What I thought I could hide came into the light 2 years ago. I begged God to take it away and change me. This fall, I realized he DID change me in a way I didn't expect, he gave me self acceptance and a mission to help those who will go down this same path. As early as a month ago, I thought I could remain in this place of compromise but this week has confirmed that I am going onward. I'm being swept downstream. There are rapids ahead but there are others calling out signals from the banks. We are going to make it.
I owe a special thanks to Samantha Rogers for helping pull me through Friday morning. You are a very dear friend Sammie! Among many other things, this is a jewel that, "stopped me dead in my tracks":
"What you are missing is something you will only get from being dressed and moving among others. You are trans. Your identity is female. But identity is only partly about how we feel inside. It also needs the reinforcement that comes from having others treat us as female. You need to feel that, sis. It will stop you dead in your tracks. Everything will become clear."
This post was last modified: 21-12-2014, 04:05 AM by Marina Kits.
Kari,
It's good to hear the path ahead of you is bright and promising.
From our prior talks, I think a reason why you have continued to present as male in the past is because you didn't want to alienate your wife and children. Now that your wife is aware and accepting of your true self, it sounds like going the transition route at your own pace is the most sensible path for you.
It's good to hear the path ahead of you is bright and promising.
(21-12-2014, 01:29 AM)kari leigh Wrote: My psychiatrist simply asked me why, if I'm female, would I continue to be male (what I've never wanted) rather than BE female inside and out but present as male (or tomboy) as needed. It was a valid question to which I had no good answer.
From our prior talks, I think a reason why you have continued to present as male in the past is because you didn't want to alienate your wife and children. Now that your wife is aware and accepting of your true self, it sounds like going the transition route at your own pace is the most sensible path for you.
(21-12-2014, 01:29 AM)kari leigh Wrote: I had a personal earth quake recently.
....
What began to sink in this week is that I just can't do the compromise - it's too painful and I need to go all the way. The thought of it makes my heart leap for joy.
I remember experiencing something similar when I realised that I could no longer go on lying to myself and everyone around me. I never thought of it that way until the walls came crashing down but that is what I was doing.
I will not lie to you. Being true to myself and being openly female has made me more content than I have ever been in my life, but there are still dark days. My emotions are so much more intense and I am still coming to terms with learning to deal with them. Would I go back? No. Never.
If this is the road that you MUST walk then do so. It will have its bad moments but the simple act of being your true self will make you shine. Those that were reluctant to see you transition may well come to realise that a much nicer person was being suppressed and she is now visible. I have been surprised by the number of people who have told me that they do not want me to detransition, that they like me better. I am not alone in this. I know other transitioners who have experienced it.
Being true to yourself is a tremendously powerful thing and it shows. Others can see it and they like it. Remember Oscar Wilde's advice "Be yourself - everyone else is already taken"
(21-12-2014, 01:29 AM)kari leigh Wrote: And here's the kicker, I also began to believe that I could pass.
80% of passing is in YOUR head. Believe in yourself and others will believe in you. I am still astounded by how much I pass and even in very personal female spaces I am unchallenged and accepted. Why? Because I know I am finally becoming my true self.
Kari Leigh - do what feels right. Do it slowly and take time to get used to it. Let others assimilate each stage before progressing a little further. Gradually it will become the new normal for you and everyone around you and in a few years time you will wonder what all the fuss was about. Although everything will have changed it will seem like very little has changed.
What really changes is how you feel about yourself. It is a prize worth having and I hope you feel able to move forward and grasp it.
Hey, Kari....I'm glad I could be there for you honey.
But I cannot take credit for those words. They came to me when I needed them from a dear dear TS friend on another site who has helped me tremendously in all this.
We all help each other. Really, who else is there who understands and cares as much as we can for each other?
So we pay it forward when we can. Right?
Love you, girl.
I am so happy for you and where you are and how you are growing. The joy I read in your words is palpable...and all the Christmas present I need. Thanks.
Hugs
Sammie
But I cannot take credit for those words. They came to me when I needed them from a dear dear TS friend on another site who has helped me tremendously in all this.
We all help each other. Really, who else is there who understands and cares as much as we can for each other?
So we pay it forward when we can. Right?
Love you, girl.
I am so happy for you and where you are and how you are growing. The joy I read in your words is palpable...and all the Christmas present I need. Thanks.
Hugs
Sammie
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