13-06-2013, 01:27 AM
To come back to your reply to me:
‘It sounds to me as though your hair loss was not in fact male pattern. It actually sounds much more in line with an undiagnosed thyroid problem. Maybe pituitary. But not due to excessive DHT.
And generally once significant loss due to a pituitary or thyroid related problem has occurred, it is irreversible.
Though there are many cases of rather miraculous recoveries after proper treatment for a thyroid problem... I am not familiar with ANY for pituitary related alopecia.’
That is certainly an interesting idea, and I doubt whether there was any occasion for such a condition to be detected at that time. In recent years there has been no abnormality in my thyroid levels. What I said was based on photographs taken at 18 and 23, and even at 18 there was some recession at the temples. Some time in my thirties I finally gave up trying to train the remaining strands across my bare scalp, to the great relief of everybody, not least myself.. I have no idea whether it is relevant, but when I was 11 I suddenly developed quite a large bald patch. I was taken to a specialist, but what transpired I can’t recollect, if indeed I was told. It subsequently grew in again. This was about the time I suspect my dysphoria began.
‘As for the ever endless debate about different kinds of anti-androgens... I can not recall the study, but there was actually a study that did a double-blind comparison between dutasteride, finasteride, and saw palmetto extracts which DID prove that saw palmetto, extracted properly, had exactly identical, but significantly weaker effects. I believe it was finasteride which had the most powerful effect, while dutasteride was somewhere between. It also showed that while per identical dose saw palmetto was weaker than either, that the effects did become significantly improved with higher dosing and at maximum efficacy it was identical to dutasteride, without the same ill effects.’
Yes, I have seen something like this.
‘Of course, it does come with its own bundle of side effects... mainly that of fat gain or decreased ability to lose weight which is believed to be related to the comparatively weak in both effect and binding ability phytoestrogens included in the herb.’
I didn’t know that.
‘And for beta-sitosterol... The only research I've seen trying to link the chemical to 5ARI activity has been of the statistical kind. No actual experimentation, only surveys and attempts at correlating the data into meaning what they wish it to mean... The language actually used includes terms such as "may", and on close examination of the actual data, the correlation is quite weak at best...
That doesn't mean that it DOESN'T have 5ARI activity, only that it's not been proven, or even researched properly, and I prefer to not even mention supposed activities of a chemical or a compound of chemicals unless there's at least some real experimental research done on it, and maybe significant anecdotal evidence, not just loose statistical analyses. And presently that's all we have on beta-sitosterol for being a possible 5ARI - loose statistical analyses. Which could mean anything. Since as far as I could tell there wasn't even any attempts made to control for other potential 5ARI's.
What we do have for proven research on beta-sitosterol is that it's a moderately strong receptor antagonist with mild estrogenic effects.’
On review, many of the studies of beta sitosterol as a treatment of BPH or MPB simply assume that it is a 5AR inhibitor, or use wording like “hypothesised to be’. One paper, ‘Effect of beta -sitosterol as inhibitor of 5-alpha-reductase in hamster prostate’ does state in its abstract that it inhibited 5 alpha reductase with IC50 = 2.7mM, but I have not seen the whole paper.
‘And... thanks for the compliments I guess? LOL. Yeah... I probably really am rather unlikely to become part of the death statistic for TG. At least of the suicide variety. There's no telling if someone may yet kill me for being different though.’
Sad as your last comment may be, what you have shared with us here suggests that the ‘difference’ is well on its way to disappearing.
‘I do have a very powerful relationship with my maker, and it's probably the only thing I have to thank for keeping me around this long.
Believe me though, you've only interacted with me long since I'd already won the battle against myself. There was a point when I really was extremely close to suicide-by-inactivity. Not intentionally taking my own life... but allowing myself to waste away due to morbid obesity and extreme depression. You know the expression "died of a broken heart"? Well, what those people actually die from was the same thing I was very very close to allowing myself to die from. Just from different causes. Theirs is caused from losing their close companion of basically their entire life before then, mine was caused by my severe dysphoria and trying so very hard to hide from it.
If it hadn't been for other people "waking" me up to what I was allowing to happen, I probably wouldn't be here to be the person you see now. I got the external wake up call, but then I suppose it's all me from there. I did choose to pursue a path of figuring out what the hell was wrong with me. And then on figuring it out, I did choose to tackle it rather than running away once again.
Again though... I have my relationship with God to thank for all of it. Alone I would NEVER have been strong enough.’
I am descended from a long line of clergymen or would-be clergymen, and was brought up for my first few years very much in the odor of sanctity when my mother went to housekeep for my grandfather after he had been effectively deserted by his wife. This upbringing perversely came to make me think that I could not call on God for help while still continuing to sin, although when things got really bad I would simply abandon myself to providence - and somehow things would work themselves out in often unexpected ways, and help from unexpected quarters and friends I never knew I had. So in fact I did rely on God, although my faith in the religion I was brought up in has been badly damaged in various ways. I hope He continues to be as good to you.
‘It sounds to me as though your hair loss was not in fact male pattern. It actually sounds much more in line with an undiagnosed thyroid problem. Maybe pituitary. But not due to excessive DHT.
And generally once significant loss due to a pituitary or thyroid related problem has occurred, it is irreversible.
Though there are many cases of rather miraculous recoveries after proper treatment for a thyroid problem... I am not familiar with ANY for pituitary related alopecia.’
That is certainly an interesting idea, and I doubt whether there was any occasion for such a condition to be detected at that time. In recent years there has been no abnormality in my thyroid levels. What I said was based on photographs taken at 18 and 23, and even at 18 there was some recession at the temples. Some time in my thirties I finally gave up trying to train the remaining strands across my bare scalp, to the great relief of everybody, not least myself.. I have no idea whether it is relevant, but when I was 11 I suddenly developed quite a large bald patch. I was taken to a specialist, but what transpired I can’t recollect, if indeed I was told. It subsequently grew in again. This was about the time I suspect my dysphoria began.
‘As for the ever endless debate about different kinds of anti-androgens... I can not recall the study, but there was actually a study that did a double-blind comparison between dutasteride, finasteride, and saw palmetto extracts which DID prove that saw palmetto, extracted properly, had exactly identical, but significantly weaker effects. I believe it was finasteride which had the most powerful effect, while dutasteride was somewhere between. It also showed that while per identical dose saw palmetto was weaker than either, that the effects did become significantly improved with higher dosing and at maximum efficacy it was identical to dutasteride, without the same ill effects.’
Yes, I have seen something like this.
‘Of course, it does come with its own bundle of side effects... mainly that of fat gain or decreased ability to lose weight which is believed to be related to the comparatively weak in both effect and binding ability phytoestrogens included in the herb.’
I didn’t know that.
‘And for beta-sitosterol... The only research I've seen trying to link the chemical to 5ARI activity has been of the statistical kind. No actual experimentation, only surveys and attempts at correlating the data into meaning what they wish it to mean... The language actually used includes terms such as "may", and on close examination of the actual data, the correlation is quite weak at best...
That doesn't mean that it DOESN'T have 5ARI activity, only that it's not been proven, or even researched properly, and I prefer to not even mention supposed activities of a chemical or a compound of chemicals unless there's at least some real experimental research done on it, and maybe significant anecdotal evidence, not just loose statistical analyses. And presently that's all we have on beta-sitosterol for being a possible 5ARI - loose statistical analyses. Which could mean anything. Since as far as I could tell there wasn't even any attempts made to control for other potential 5ARI's.
What we do have for proven research on beta-sitosterol is that it's a moderately strong receptor antagonist with mild estrogenic effects.’
On review, many of the studies of beta sitosterol as a treatment of BPH or MPB simply assume that it is a 5AR inhibitor, or use wording like “hypothesised to be’. One paper, ‘Effect of beta -sitosterol as inhibitor of 5-alpha-reductase in hamster prostate’ does state in its abstract that it inhibited 5 alpha reductase with IC50 = 2.7mM, but I have not seen the whole paper.
‘And... thanks for the compliments I guess? LOL. Yeah... I probably really am rather unlikely to become part of the death statistic for TG. At least of the suicide variety. There's no telling if someone may yet kill me for being different though.’
Sad as your last comment may be, what you have shared with us here suggests that the ‘difference’ is well on its way to disappearing.
‘I do have a very powerful relationship with my maker, and it's probably the only thing I have to thank for keeping me around this long.
Believe me though, you've only interacted with me long since I'd already won the battle against myself. There was a point when I really was extremely close to suicide-by-inactivity. Not intentionally taking my own life... but allowing myself to waste away due to morbid obesity and extreme depression. You know the expression "died of a broken heart"? Well, what those people actually die from was the same thing I was very very close to allowing myself to die from. Just from different causes. Theirs is caused from losing their close companion of basically their entire life before then, mine was caused by my severe dysphoria and trying so very hard to hide from it.
If it hadn't been for other people "waking" me up to what I was allowing to happen, I probably wouldn't be here to be the person you see now. I got the external wake up call, but then I suppose it's all me from there. I did choose to pursue a path of figuring out what the hell was wrong with me. And then on figuring it out, I did choose to tackle it rather than running away once again.
Again though... I have my relationship with God to thank for all of it. Alone I would NEVER have been strong enough.’
I am descended from a long line of clergymen or would-be clergymen, and was brought up for my first few years very much in the odor of sanctity when my mother went to housekeep for my grandfather after he had been effectively deserted by his wife. This upbringing perversely came to make me think that I could not call on God for help while still continuing to sin, although when things got really bad I would simply abandon myself to providence - and somehow things would work themselves out in often unexpected ways, and help from unexpected quarters and friends I never knew I had. So in fact I did rely on God, although my faith in the religion I was brought up in has been badly damaged in various ways. I hope He continues to be as good to you.