[bryony]

Now... various other herbs, in combination do work for breast growth albeit slowly.. but do these other PM effects also apply in the same way? i.e are the PM effects simply phyto-estrogen effects or are they to some extent specifically PM reactions?
Where I'm going with this, is, could we use PM to grow to however big we want, and switch to other herbs to maintain volume but get different withdrawal effects?

I hope that makes sense and I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts.

I doubt it Pansy-Mae. That paper we looked at some time ago about Testosterone Toxicity was by a Dr Ann Vitale, and I went along to her web site. It did state it in a kind of roundabout way in the paper, but much more clearly on her other pages, that the feeling of well-being and suppression of the desire to cross-dress is a well known effect of administering feminising doses of estrogen to Gender Dysphoric individuals, and if it is withdrawn, anxiety and cross-dressing resumes.

You, me, Sfem, JulieTG, even though we don't currently have the desire to transition are kind of stuck with taking feminising estrogen for life, or suffer the consequences. Have a look at this:
http://www.avitale.com/FAQ.htm

I'll copy a few relevant sections below... It's a bit of a bummer, because, as Chrissie told me, it looks like I _am_ TS, but it doesn't mean that I have to transition. Looks like I'm screwed though...

B.x

15. Is there a diagnostic test, for example, genetic testing, that will let one know if they are ..... transsexual ...?

No. there is no genetic test that can be administered to tell anyone what their sexuality is. That can only be done by honest self examination. Transsexualism, which has nothing to do with sexual preference, is different. We can't do a genetic test, but we can administer cross-sex hormones and see if the individual responds positively or negatively to them. That procedure is routinely done after the individual has had an extensive period of psychotherapy and is fully aware of the consequences. A negative reaction would result in extreme anxiety and discomfort. A positive reaction is one where the individual reports a calming affect. Often described as a feeling of well-being.

(this reminds me of Karen, who experienced severe anxiety after taking PM - clearly not gender dysphoric)

CATEGORY 6: HORMONES
1. I have heard that one of the uses of hormone replacement therapy is to see if the individual accepts or rejects the treatment. In your experience (or in other documented sources) where there was a rejection, what are the responses?

First of all, keep in mind that a referral for hormone replacement therapy is made with great caution. Individuals are not only evaluated for severity of gender variance but they are educated to the effect the hormones will have on them. Most of the people I see come in very aware of the effect HRT will have on their secondary sex characteristics but few are aware of the general health risks and the psychological effects they will experience. For example, I explain to all my clients MTF clients that paradoxically taking estrogen will diminish not only their libido, it will diminish their need to crossdress. I know that is counterintuitive but it is a fact.
I also warn them that getting on estrogen can result in a sense of well being that leads to a strong desire to continue taking it. They had better be prepared for that consequence. .....

15A. How long does it take, if at all, to determine a reaction from hormones?

There is ALWAYS a reaction to taking cross sex exogenous hormones. If the individual has a history of gender dysphoria or as I would prefer to call it, Gender Expression Deprivation Anxiety, the primary reaction is a relaxing one. That is the individual experiences feelings of well being as the anxiety is relieved. If a non gender dysphoric person is exposed to cross sex, exogenous hormones, the opposite occurs; a state of anxiety is induced that goes away once the hormones are no longer being taken. The time period for all of this to occur is very short, ranging from hours to no more then a few days.

The other, more physical changes take longer and are not easily reversable. If a genetic male takes estrogens, he will start to notice tenderness in his nipples in a matter of weeks as the first signs of breast development. The rest of the feminzation will gradually happen over the rest of the period he continues to take the hormones. Depending on the person's age and level of male development at the start of the process, it usually takes six to twelve months before the changes are so advanced that friends and acquaintances would notice and may start to inquiry about your appearance. Of course, a spouse or lover would notice much sooner.