[Lotus]

I want to make clear I don't have an issue with Karen or Teddy, their good people. I do have issue with interpretation on extracts, thus the point of this post.

Teddy is right. Do not buy any EXTRACTS, like 4:1, etc.

 
In Teddy's posted research about Pueraria Mirifica extracts, he used a study about how “Puerarin” was used to evaluate the poor extraction using water. Puerarin isn't Pueraria Mirifica… which the latter is used here for breast growth.

Puerarin: a potential natural neuroprotective agent for neurological disorders
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...3694#bib58

I am bit skeptical about P.M. extracts because in many cases they don't work very well or not at all. The reason is likely that the extraction process doesn't capture some of the phytoestrogens such as puerarin aren't well soluble to usual extracting solvents.

Teddy also said this:

Regarding extracts, one has also noted that extraction methods, such as solvent used, make a big difference.

However, the extraction method and solvent have a great impact what is extracted and what is left behind. Therefore, in general, extract may lack some of the useful stuff, either because they are soluble to the solvent used (often either water or alcohol), or the method might use such a high temperature that some of substances are changed/destroyed.

In the other hand, in some cases the extract is utilized/absorbed either better or, sometimes, less well than the raw material.

That makes it very difficult to judge the real effective extraction ratio, and also to compare different suppliers' products. It is a bit frustrating situation. I am myself therefore using RR and PM in natural powder format, mixing it in a suitable smoothie-type drink.

The above posts are repeated in other threads. Key point, the water extraction process yielding statement and corresponding science didn't pertain to “Pueraria Mirifica”... it pertains to “Puerarin”. 

Puerarin, an isoflavone, is a chemotaxonomic maker of the genus Pueraria. Many of the bioactivities of the genus Pueraria is attributed to isoflavone glycosides, mainly puerarin. Among the sterols, Miroestrol is widely investigated for its biological activities.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...2220309276

We can't discount using extracts and their potential based on misinterpreted science. It gives the idea that extracts are bad and not to be used, which is completely untrue. 

Now, I'm going to post some science literature articles and information I put together. This study below exhibited higher antioxidant activities and cells exposed to magnetized water yielded a 43% biomass. So using water (albeit magnetized) isn't a bad thing.

Magnetized water: A way to enhance isoflavonoids in cultured Pueraria candollei var. mirifica cells
Magnetic fields can alter plant growth and development. In this study, the effect of magnetized water on the growth and secondary metabolite production of Pueraria candollei var. mirifica (PM) suspension cells were evaluated. Magnetized water was generated by passing water through a magnetic field (400 mT) at a 6 L/min flow rate. The suspension cells exposed to magnetized water for 10 (M2, 1.37 g) and 5 min (M1, 1.23 g) showed 21% and 9% higher biomass accumulation, respectively, compared with the control cells after 5 days. Compared with that in the control cells, the biomass was increased by approximately 43% when the cells were exposed to M2 (3.01 g) after 28 days. In addition, the use of magnetized water altered the accumulation pattern of isoflavonoids after 5 days of treatment. Isoflavonoid accumulation was the highest after treatment with M2 for 5 days and yielded 4.20 mg/g dry weight (DW) daidzein, 0.58 mg/g DW genistein, and 3.98 mg/g DW kwakhurin. When the cells were maintained in the treatment for a relatively long duration (28 days), a short span of magnetization (M1) resulted in the highest accumulation of isoflavonoids with the amounts of 3.51, 0.55, and 2.58 mg/g DW for daidzein, genistein, and kwakhurin, respectively. After 28 days of exposure to magnetized water, the expression of 2-hydroxyisoflavanone synthase and 2-hydroxyisoflavanone dehydratase increased, and this phenomenon coincided with the increased amount of isoflavonoids in the suspension cells. The magnetized water-treated PM cells also exhibited higher antioxidant activities than the control cells. The lowest half-maximal inhibitory concentration (37.93 mg/mL) was observed in the cells treated with magnetized water after 15 min (M3). The enhanced total antioxidant activity of the cells treated with M3 may be attributed to the presence of other compounds in addition to isoflavonoids. This study represents an innovative attempt at a low-cost and environmentally friendly approach that can enhance the growth, secondary metabolite production, and antioxidant activity of PM suspension cells.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...902200262X

General averages of rates/ratios when consuming herbs

Q-How long does a capsule take to dissolve?

A-Typically the average is up to 20 minutes, some sources have at 5-10 minutes while others say 20-30 minutes. Extracts 1 to 4 minutes

Q-What are typical absorption results?

A-For skin application- 60%

A-Liquid- 98% 

A-capsule- 10-20%

Q-What is the capsule to extract ratio?

A-20 to 1, meaning it would take 20 capsules to = 1 teaspoon of extract

Q-When is the best time to take an herb?

A-In general herbs are best taken on an empty stomach

Edit-

When to supplement
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Hormones are released every 90 minutes, the binding of receptors takes 30-45 minutes upon activation. The process of supplementing should match that cycle (e.g. supplement every 4 hrs to correspond with the cycle rather than taking all at once, or in large doses). 

Isoflavonoids and Phytoestrogens from Pueraria candollei var. mirifica Related with Appropriate Ratios of Ethanol Extraction
Pueraria candollei var. Mirifica collected from Thailand and Vietnam were extracted with ethanol (50, 75 and 95 % v/v). 95 % of ethanolic extract (S095) contained higher quantities of isoflavonoids and phytoestrogens than other ethanolic extracts. The amount of individual isoflavonoids (mg/g extract) were puerarin (5.012), daidzin (2.278), daidzein (1.886), genistin (0.620) and genistein (0.437) which were analyzed by HPLC. The phytoestrogens (mg/g extract) tested by indirect competitive enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay were miroestrol (1.581) and deoxymiroestrol (0.397). In conclusion, 95 % ethanol revealed the highest potential extraction of isoflavonoids and phytoestrogens for use as active ingredients in the development of obstetric creams for postmenopausal women.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...3321000439

Miroestrol was estimated to have 0.25 times the estrogenic activity of 17β-estradiol using a vaginal cornification assay [13], whereas the growth-promoting effect of deoxymiroestrol on MCF-7 human breast cancer cells was approximately 10-fold more potent than that of miroestrol [9].

Puerarin, an isoflavone, is a chemotaxonomic maker of the genus Pueraria. Many of the bioactivities of the genus Pueraria is attributed to isoflavone glycosides, mainly puerarin. Among the sterols, Miroestrol is widely investigated for its biological activities.

Reactive oxygen species (ROS) cause apoptosis of vascular endothelial cells and it is one of the causes for the pathogenesis of cardiovascular diseases. Gao et. al.[6] reported the protective and therapeutic effect of ethanol extract of P. lobata root on human umbilical vein endothelial cells (HUVECs). The roots were extracted with 70 % ethanol and purified over AB-8 resin column to prepare the isoflavone enriched extract. 

When searching for PM extracts (in capsule or liquid) to purchase you'll want to confirm it was made in a GMP (good manufacturing process) FACILITY, non GMO (genetic modified organism), a USP (United States Pharmacopeia) label, and clearly identified ratio with no fillers. Plus, the stated ratio of miroestrol & deoxymiroestrol (the main bioactives in PM).


Transcriptome analysis of Pueraria candollei var. mirifica for gene discovery in the biosyntheses of isoflavones and miroestrol
https://bmcplantbiol.biomedcentral.com/a...019-2205-0

United States Pharmacopeia (USP)
https://www.usp.org/verification-services/verified-mark

Methods for extraction:
A review of modern and conventional extraction techniques and their applications for extracting phytochemicals from plants
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...7623000443

New Pueraria Mirifica scientific research 

Transcriptome analysis of Pueraria candollei var. mirifica for gene discovery in the biosyntheses of isoflavones and miroestrol
https://bmcplantbiol.biomedcentral.com/a...019-2205-0

A metabolomics approach to evaluate the effect of lyophilization versus oven drying on the chemical composition of plant extracts
Lyophilization is the “gold standard” for drying plant extracts, which is important in preserving their quality and extending their shelf-life. 
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8608909/

Transcriptome analysis of Pueraria candollei var. mirifica for gene discovery in the biosyntheses of isoflavones and miroestrol
https://bmcplantbiol.biomedcentral.com/a...019-2205-0

Enhanced accumulation of high-value deoxymiroestrol and isoflavonoids using hairy root as a sustainable source of Pueraria candollei var. mirifica
https://link.springer.com/article/10.100...018-1500-z




More to follow, so check back later.