[Lotus]

 Hey there unknowntraveller and Chuck, I'm happy to clear things up. 

Pm and FG are estrogenic, FG can increase E2 levels (science attached), PM acts similarly to estradiol via miroestrol/deoxymiroestrol. FG and PM are competing for the same receptor and what ends happening is what's called over expressio which results in a disruption of normal estrogen signaling to the nucleus, meaning no breast growth. 

Hi Joey,

I don't think you should coalesce E2 and FG, meaning they both are competing for the same estrogen receptor. Here's some notes I made some years ago about how FG stimulates E2 (estradiol). Plus, one glaring no-no for me is that FG can lower SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) via in favor of T. SHBG transports hormones in the blood to various tissue receptors. SHBG is like a ying/yang scenario. Meaning (for example) when estradiol is high SHBG will be high (verified by a blood test, and thus T will be low). E2 will keep SHBG high, favoring breast growth.

IMHO, choose one or the other, and stick with it. Though don't forget the PC.

I posted this last year, take a look at the diagram in table 2, in specifically the increase in dhea, progesterone, FSH (follicle stimulating hormone...a pure aromatase imo) testosterone and prolactin, respectively. From the study I believe the bump in libido comes from DHEA (similar to maca), however, the way FG increases E2 (dramatically in month 2) comes from its aromatase capabilities (from multiple pathways I believe), but mostly from FSH.

Influence of a Specialized Trigonella foenum- graecum Seed Extract (Libifem), on Testosterone, Estradiol and Sexual Function in Healthy Menstruating Women, a Randomised Placebo Controlled Study
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The aim of the study was to evaluate the effect of Trigonellafoenum-graecum (fenugreek) seed extract on sex hormones and sexual function in healthy menstruating women who reported low sexual drive. This short term, single site, double blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study was conducted on 80 women, aged 20 to 49 years. Participants were randomized to either an oral dose of a standardized T. foenum-graecum seed extract (libifem) at a dose of 600 mg/day or placebo over two menstrual cycles. Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, progesterone, androstenedione, total and free testosterone, estradiol (E2), luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, sex hormone binding globulin and cholesterol were measured at baseline and 8 weeks. The individual aspects of sexual function were measured using the Derogatis interview for sexual functioning and female sexual function index self-administered questionnaires. Stress, fatigue and quality of the relationship with partners were also measured using the PSS (Perceived Stress Scale), MFI-20 (Multidimensional Fatigue Inventory) and DAS (Dyadic Adjustment Scale) quality of life measures, respectively. There was a significant increase in free testosterone and E2 in the active group as well as sexual desire and arousal compared with the placebo group. The results indicate that this extract of T. foenum-graecum may be a useful treatment for increasing sexual arousal and desire in women. Copyright © 2015 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Luis_Vitetta/publication/275354668_Influence_of_a_Specialized_Trigonella_foenum_graecum_Seed_Extract_Libifem_on_Testosterone_Estradiol_and_Sexual_Function_in_Healthy_Menstruating_Women_a_Randomised_Placebo_Controlled_Study/links/553ae3960cf2c415bb08fe6d/Influence-of-a-Specialized-Trigonella-foenum-graecum-Seed-Extract-Libifem-on-Testosterone-Estradiol-and-Sexual-Function-in-Healthy-Menstruating-Women-a-Randomised-Placebo-Controlled-Study.pdf

Well yeah, but judging from this study FG pretty much upregulates everything, see here: 

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Administration of T. foenum-graecum seed extract was also associated with a significant increase in E2 levels. Estradiol stimulates vaginal lubrication and blood flow, affecting a woman’s capacity for sexual arousal and orgasm (Simon, 2011); this supports the significant positive change in sexual arousal observed. Whilst the mechanism of the increase in E2 levels is unclear from the current study, one possibility is due to increased aromatase activity that converts testosterone to E2.

my interpretation of how FG increases E2 is explained above.

I now understand how highly organized molecules function inside the mitochondrial matrix, for instance: ATP (which stands for Adenosine Triphosphate) is the Energy Currency for Cells, but before I get into the science (which blows my mind) I must admit ignorance in my early NBE programs.....yup!, I didn't know any better back then    but here I am now better prepared/informed and ready take on the science of NBE/hrt. 

Btw, only using 600 mg of fenugreek (with 50% saponins) works just fine:
Fenugreek increases estradiol
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=26172

Part of the reason (which I now believe) what makes fenugreek useful for NBE is how it works in stomach acid...the saponins (emulsifiers) in FG is a mechanism for boosting estradiol in stomach acid, I'll follow up on that later though.