[Lotus]

Hi BN,

I'm attaching some recent posts made at BreastNexus to here in this thread. My goal is a further elaboration of the many cleaved pathways of Human steroidogenesis.....where I see this going (or the direction of NBE) is the ability to determine what each supplement does, (e.g) metabolism, steroid synthesis, the optimal basal body temp (BBT) to metabolize supplements, timing of supplements, weight issues and many other related topics. It's time we put all this together.....we have the capability to get this done at BN. 



(wiki has solid information on the topic of steroid metabolism)
Steroid
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid

Steroidogenic enzymes: structure, function, and role in regulation of steroid hormone biosynthesis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22217824


The body temp is a critical factor in how well we metabolise drugs, and yet we don't take full advantage of the proper set point to benefit drug potency capabilities. For instance, the poor functioning thyroid is tied directly to lower body temp....I've talked about thermogenesis in previous posts, and my understanding (or analysis) of how to use this for NBE goes beyond a sluggish thyroid explanation. I've attached a few articles to better explain BBT, read dr. Mercola's link, see the connection of how soy destroys thyroids, more so if it's already compromised. 


The effects of drugs on thermoregulation.
Cuddy ML.
Abstract
Body temperature is a balance of the hypothalamic set point, neurotransmitter action, generation of body heat, and dissipation of heat. Drugs affect body temperature by different mechanisms. Antipyretics lower body temperature when the body's thermoregulatory set point has been raised by endogenous or exogenous pyrogens. The use of antipyretics may be unnecessary or may interfere with the body's resistance to infection, mask an important sign of illness, or cause adverse drug effects. Drugs may cause increased body temperature in five ways: altered thermoregulatory mechanisms, drug administration-related fever, fever from the pharmacologic action of the drug, idiosyncratic reactions, and hypersensitivity reactions. Certain drugs cause hypothermia by depression of the thermoregulatory set point or prevention of heat conservation. By affecting the balance of thermoregulatory neurotransmitters, drugs may prevent the signs and symptoms of hot flashes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15461041


Body Temperature and Thyroid Problems
When your thyroid hormone is working properly inside cells you will make 65 percent energy and 35 percent heat as you burn calories for fuel. Thyroid hormone governs your basal metabolic rate, orchestrating the idling speed at which all cells make energy and thus heat. A classic symptom of poor thyroid function is being too cold. Conversely, a classic symptom of hyperthyroidism is being too hot (making too much heat). However, many people with low thyroid are too hot—a seeming paradox that I will explain shortly.
http://www.wellnessresources.com/weight_..._problems/

Many Symptoms Suggest Sluggish Thyroid -- Do You Have Any of These?
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...yroid.aspx
[/quote]

So if I were to fill out that temperature form I then might come to understand how my body may or may not be metabolizing the herbs I take to their full potential? That makes a lot of sense. I am also having a spit hormone panel done this month when I go for my annual pap. So hopefully once I get that information in addition to recording my temperature I might be able to understand the science behind how my body is functioning and from there create an herbal routine to best support NBE? My understanding of this is very rudimentary so I appreciate your patience with me. I am also hoping to get my annual blood work done soon.  

I have a thought in regards to getting a hormone panel done, would the herbs I'm taking then skew the accuracy of hormone panel I'd like to do? Should I stop taking the herbs? And if so should I stop taking them immediately? I don't want to just drop off of a program because when I did that when I was freaked about my period within a handful of days I'd lost what seemed to be any growth I had gained.
[/quote]


Focus on how cholesterol starts the entire Steroidogenesis process, from there see how peptides, insulin, temperature, the hypothalamus/pituitary, lipids, leptin, energy produced in cells, and many others regulate our metabolism. Below is further information on how to better metabolize. 

Steroidogenesis is the biological process by which steroids are generated from cholesterol and changed into other steroids.[27] The pathways of steroidogenesis differ among species. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid#Steroidogenesis

The Molecular Biology, Biochemistry, and Physiology of Human Steroidogenesis and Its Disorders
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3365799/

Ribosomal (or mRNA) peptides are small (signaling) molecule in hormones and in an organism. 

A useful strategy for NBE could be to indenify what substrates will/won't work for us. We think hormone testing (yes useful) is the first line of progress, or problem areas (deficiencies). Instead, I think (finances permitting of course) a human genome test could map out (or eliminate) the drugs we can't use. Is cost analysis worth the investment compared to all the drama that comes from our lost time, money, sanity waiting for boobs to finally grow.

in the absence of such an endeavor (genome testing) this (below) is the next best thing, yes complicated, but didn't we just find out that MSM inhibits DHT and promotes aromatase by using this method below:

This is a post (smart fella, this MarDok42) from a PCOS board: 

In the last few days my pharmacist friend explained to me when you block testosterone with one herb it will only block its production from one or two gene pathways, and a lot of the pro-hormones (hormone precursors) will find another pathway to testosterone, but it does give it a little longer to possibly become an estrogen. So to have more effective herbs, block more pathways with different types of herbs. Here's what I got so far.

Below are the genes that are involved in testosterone syntheses, they are the ones that start with 'CYP'. I have begun to cross referenced them with known chemicals in herbs that are known to inhibit these genes. If you want to find a synergistic herbal combination you might want to find a few herbs with these chemicals or others in it to inhibit(block) the majority of this gene set.

This is by no means a comprehensive list because I only started this project a week ago in my free time. But I thought that there might be other science geeks out there that would like to poke around the gene websites too.  

Genes Involved in Testosterone Syntheses with corsponding inhibitors.

CYP1A2(also makes an Estrogen).....,cimetidine (inhibits)
CYP1B1(also makes an Estrogen)
CYP2B1– apigenin,Curcumin
CYP2B6– apigenin,Curcumin,Kaempferol
CYP2A3- lignans, genistein, Kaempferol
CYP2C11(Men Only)
CYP3A4 - lignans, Kaempferol, genistein, Curcumin (cimetidine, inhibits), sesame seeds and oil. Piperine
CYP3A5 - lignans, Kaempferol, genistein, Curcumin 
CYP3A9 -
CYP19A1 -


Some Herbs and the anti androgen chemicals in them. 

apigenin(chamomille)
Quercetin (chamomille)
genistein(Soy)
Curcumin(Vanalla, Turmeric)
Kaempferol(Peony, Dill)
lignans (Flax)

steroidogenic enzymes represent targets for complete suppression of systemic and intratumoral androgen levels, an objective that is supported by the clinical efficacy of the CYP17 inhibitor abiraterone.

I added a couple things to the op's notes, the following is a list I put together:

Remember, by identifying these enzymes it provides information of drug-drug interactions. What's also key is the fact that certain cancers can be identified by examining these ezymens with interactions. 


Here's a new one called CYP2C8, which metabolizes fatty acids. another CYP17's , which CYP17A modifies estrogen metabolism.


CYP2C8- lignans-Quercetin, linoleic acid
CYP17 -lignans-green tea (inhibits DHT)
CYP17A modifies estrogen metabolism

When used in quantities typical for flavoring food, black pepper is not likely to affect the disposition of most medications. However, excessive use of black pepper or intake of dietary supplements formulated with P. nigrum or P. longum extracts may produce clinically significant interactions with drugs. This may be of particular concern when CYP3A and/or ABCB1 substrates are ingested concomitantly with piperine or piperamides in excess of 10 mg.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?filters=&orig_db=PubMed&cmd=Search&term=134%2A%5Bvolume%5D%20AND%201948%5Bpage%5D%20AND%202004%5Bpdat%5D%20AND%20Lambert%20JD%5Bauth%5D

Estrogen pathway for mammary density
HSD3B1, (catalyses the biosynthesis of all classes of hormonal steroids)
HSD17B1 (estrogen activation and androgen inactivation)
CYP27B1, CYP24 metabolizes enzymes in mammary cells, Vit.D elongates breast
CYP1A1 (polypeptide protein)
CYP1A2 (estrogen link)
CYP17A1 (modifies estrogen / inhibits DHT)
CYP19A1 (aromatase) 
CYP1B1 (breaks down fats, aka-lipids) 
COMT-(catechol-O-methyltransferase)
UGT1A1-(uridine diphospho-glucuronosyltransferase -(catalyzes estrogen) 
SULT1A1, SULT1E1- (sulfotransferases)
ESR1, ESR2-(estrogen receptors alpha and beta)



CYP17 and CYP1A1-1 play a role in the pathogenesis of fibroadenoma. Meaning something like cigarette smoke can have direct role on the CYP1A1 enzyme metabolism, e.g. progression of fibroadenomas. In other words, as bad as smoking is, 2nd hand smoke can further exacerbate fibroadenomas.