[Louise]

Hi all,

I'm just starting out and after doing some research and looking at what I could get hold of in the UK, I got hold of some Oxford Vitality PM and White Peony from LifeExtension. I'm really confused about the dosage though.

So the PM packaging states: "White Kwao Krua 2500mg Herbal Extract" on the front and on the back "Serving size: 1 Tablet. White Kwao Krua (Pueraria Mirifica) from 250mg of a 10:1 extract.... Standardised Amount 2500mg" which confuses me as to whether this is a 2500mg or 250mg dose per tablet.

Everything I've read on here suggests I shouldn't crash in at 2500mg PM straight away (I'm correct that's bad, right?) and I assumed that's what I had, so I was thinking of cutting these things down. But if this is actually a 250mg dose that's practically nothing if I split it, and I worry that then the peony (600mg) will then be damaging because there's not enough estrogen coming from the PM to make it safe. 

The other way of looking at it is, OK, say I assume they're 250mg in reality, and I want to start off on say 500mg and build my way up to 2500mg. That'd be between 2 and 10 pills a day, which if it turns out they're really 2500mg is a heroic and dangerous dose to be taking!

So which do I actually have here? Looking at previous posts on this brand Rebecca Donaldson's post on this thread http://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=27240&pid=192922&highlight=oxford#pid192922 certainly talks as if the 2500mg pills are actually 250mg (a quarter of a gram) Also there's this thread http://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=27220&pid=191875&highlight=oxford+vitality#pid191875 which again seems to be talking about the same pills and refers to taking 2 three times a day. In other places, I've seen people count them as if they are really 2500mg of PM.

So anyway, if I could get some advice that'd be really helpful. Getting hold of any of this stuff has been really difficult and I was all excited about starting, but now I'm terrified of doing myself a mischief

Wow, I often think that if one person has a problem understanding something maybe it isn't explained that clear (this comment excludes flat pack furniture), but two with the same issue signals a common inability to understand poor information, when it gets to three it really should be looked at by the information provider.

I started on this product 3 weeks ago and had/have the same concerns (quite spooky reading your post! and still not convinced will explain later). So I think there is a terminology issue here which may be for marketing purposes but if it is then for something like this that’s irresponsible. It boils down to whether they are quoting "Extraction or Standardisation".

I was not taken in with the 2500mg figure but for your exact reasons read up on how herbals are generally produced and this link seems really good: "https://examine.com/nutrition/what-is-actually-in-my-herbal-supplement/"

The maths of a "10:1" concept isn't something any of us struggle with but there are so many nuances to this, and an ambiguous lable.

On this forum the products commonly mentioned have completed all processing before packaging (unless I guess it’s a raw powder type product which the customer is going to put in capsules).

So the common PM tablet of 500mg is a "Standardised" amount I am guessing after processing.

Extraction, to me, seems to indicate the presence of other unwanted products in the unprocessed material necessitating extraction of the product wanted. So to apply this to our dilemma here are my scenarios

Starting with 2500mg of the unprocessed PM flower and assuming THEIR term "extraction" is correct did they extract 250mg of pure PM and the other 2250mg is all wasted by-product? In which case it is not a concentrate just processed product of 250mg of PM. (happens to give a 10:1 ratio) or ....

Starting with 2500mg of pure product and concentrated it somehow at 10:1 (to allow for a smaller tablet) so each tablet = 2500mg of original material (why quote the 10:1 and especially the 250mg values) just sell it with 2500mg on the packaging!

If companies choose to "quote" the original "Crude" product volume before the extraction process and then sell the "Concentrate". This assumes all the original Crude product was pure product all be it still in its natural weaker state. In which case this is a concentrate and not an Extract.

Other questions - can you concentrate a plant powder anyway and why is the labling so confusing, or is it me

Serving Size 1 Tablet                                 Standardised Amount %EU RDA*
White Kwao Krua
(puerarie Mirifica)
(from 250mg of a 10:1 extract ................................................... 2,500mg


*EU Recommended Daily Allowances assuming 2000 calorie diet

I am assuming that one tablet daily for a 2000 calorie intake means the tablets are fairly strong and I am having one in the morning and one at night. The bit earlier about me still not being convinced is because after three weeks I am seeing some great results and I am not taking anything else yet. These tablets seem to work and for safety’s sake I am taking two a day. If that turns out to be 5000mg well I seem to tolerate it ok, if its 2 x 250mg then 500mg of this stuff is really formidable!

Wouldn't recommend assuming they are 250mg and taking 6, but selling a tablet at 2500mg seems to be out of standard norms. Did see a separate PM product from Thailand advertised at 3000mg but in the small print they actually said equivalent to standardised 300mg after extraction. One more small observation is I love the packaging as it fits the letterbox and it’s quite plain but all the correspondence have "Breast Growth" in them in Bold, not great when your customers like to be discrete and unnecessary, this makes me wonder if the team behind this product are properly thinking things through.

Still working my way through AA not sure if, White peony, Saw Pallento, Vitex (chaste Berry), or something else in order. Will order something this week.

Site is excellent, would say the personnel programs thread is best as sometimes seeing a list of all the products doesn't help so much, though glad the info is there. A bit like being lost in the car, asking directions, and someone listing all the roads in the area  but I'll get there, and wow some clued up posters

Lou