[xxd]

Reading up on a "how to avoid gyno" thread on one of the muscle building forums, one of the posters said to avoid forskolin (an east indian aryuvedic herb) because it causes gyno.

As it turns out, according to the scientific it *seriously* and potently induces aromatase through the cyp19 gene expression by 4-5X within 2 hours and up to 20 times in 48 hours!

What that means is that if you have a DHT blocker in combination with this, all by itself it will aromatize almost all of your testosterone to estradiol!

(Gets out credit card!)

[mochaccino]

Thanks!! I was searching for supps that increase aromtization and could only find precursors, nothing that induces it directly. I really, really hope that person knows what they're talking about. I am gonna be researching this right NOW What worries me is that there are plenty of people who take a lot of forskolin for tanning or weight loss and I haven't heard about any hormonal side effects until now *crosses fingers*. I just hope that what he described also applies to women. Do you have a link to that post?

[xxd]

Thanks!! I was searching for supps that increase aromtization and could only find precursors, nothing that induces it directly. I really, really hope that person knows what they're talking about. I am gonna be researching this right NOW What worries me is that there are plenty of people who take a lot of forskolin for tanning or weight loss and I haven't heard about any hormonal side effects until now *crosses fingers*. I just hope that what he described also applies to women. Do you have a link to that post?

Peony extract does just nicely. It increases aromatization by 2X.
I have tried peony extract and I *think* it worked for me. Certainly I have a ton of fat redistribution.

Also licorice but I'd avoid it because it can cause dangerous high blood pressure and also fatal blood overloading of potassium.

[mochaccino]

Thanks so much. How the heck have I never heard of all this. I need to get back on the ball when it comes to research. Then again, it seems like no one bothers thinking about aromatization. Maybe that should change.

You're the only person I've heard of who's taking peony extract around here. Maybe there are others, but I've never come across any myself. Now I can't resist asking you a bunch more questions. What else were you doing when you were taking the peony extract? What dose? What do you mean by fat redistribution? Did it change your waist to hip ratio? Maybe you can tell us how the forskolin compares if you decide to try it.

[Salania]

Xxd, you are amazing. Not only did you discover another way to possibly aid in our quests, but you also enlightened me on a product which could help my family with their weight issues and our asthma. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

http://www.mdidea.com/products/proper/proper00910.html

That link had a lot of information on it. I did not read anything about possibility of gyno. But, I'm a rookie and from previous posts that I've had the pleasures of reading from Xxd, she seems to know exactly what she is talking about.

[Bawb]

Awesome find! Should look into this...

I'm a newbie too, so what DHT blockers have you people been using? Fenugreek or something better?

[xxd]

Awesome find! Should look into this...

I'm a newbie too, so what DHT blockers have you people been using? Fenugreek or something better?

Peony extract blocks DHT through inhibiting the 5 alpha reductase enzyme as well as increasing aromatase.

But it looks like forskolin *really* increases aromatase.

As to the other poster's question:
I have used icool genistein, d-aspartic-acid, peony extract and pueraria.

All of the first three do stuff to realign hormones but pueraria is a very powerful estradiol mimetic as well as blocking DHT.
genistein blocks DHT and seems to somehow invoke mammogenesis if combined with a high fat diet (according to studies on cows....)
d-aspartic-acid either increases estradiol in women or increases testosterone in men but also increases aromatase and estradiol a little too.
peony extract as above.

Forskolin only seems to increase aromatase and doesn't block any of the others so it won't work by itself without a DHT blocker.

For those who are interested the enzymes we're interested in are called
5 alpha reductase which catalyzes testosterone into DHT (so we want to block that), 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (we want to increase type 1 and block type 3) and aromatase (which we want to increase).

[xxd]

Ha! I'm such a smart girl! check this out:

http://www.pnas.org/content/81/15/4950.full.pdf

"In vivo, cAMP stimulates growth and morphogenesis of mouse
mammary ducts"

They used forskolin in the above study and what it says is basically that forskolin induced the growth of mammary ducts in a manner similar to that of *pregnancy* which as we all know increases the size of breasts by a fair amount...

So..... I think forskolin *might* be a good one to add to your stack...

[mochaccino]

So do you know of anything that effects 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase?

[mochaccino]

Poop!! I tried to research the side effects of forskolin and I could not find any evidence that it causes estrogen dominance in women or excess estrogen in men. Then I came across this extremely interesting thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109108171&page=1
The first few posts are complete BS. The real juicy stuff starts at post 19 (the posts are numbered on the upper right) I would say sorry for bursting your bubble, but it's my bubble too . Oh well, there's always white peony. Hopefully my research on that will have better results.
This doesn't negate what you said about the mice. Too bad rodent results are so often irrelevant in humans, but at least there's a chance. How else might cAMP affect BE? This is where the endocrinology goes way over my head