[L4BigBooty]

Does anybody know of any alternatives to DHEA us Canadians can use as it's banned and seemingly impossible to get here? I've tried scouring the forum and have not been able to find anything.

[Heaven's Night]

Absolutely no idea what could work the same... I don't think there is anything. Is it listed under steroids in Canada?

[L4BigBooty]

Yeah it is, I'm not even sure you can get it prescribed either.

[Heaven's Night]

I just checked my diary, I've been on TCP in some form for twenty eight months. I wonder if this is a record time so far? Afaik, Lotus wasn't on it any more but I'm not sure. The basis of it is quite far proven to work. Not many have done it spot on, but two newbies have been speaking of it lately and asking for advice which is exciting to see. 

I've have RC extract as part of it for thirteen months now, ginseng extract for five. Which is peculiar how it too matches with the amazing growth spurt that started around late august. I'm sure it all works nicely together although there are other reasons for this too which I've talked aboutin my main thread.

What I want to try is to add vanilla and shatavari extracts as a little experiment. I'm still to try to the goat's rue in a similar manner, its interesting because I'm quite sure we haven't turned every stone about this. I'll try to get both going within a month and see how it goes. I need to do more digging on both items as today I've just skimmed through a ton of infomarmation.

[Ninja]

Question on homemade topical
I developed a reaction to PM gave me terrible stomach cramps. I took red clover extract and added PM (phytoestrogen) also took Opill which is a progesterone  (birth control pill) ground the pills to a fine powder and added to the red clover extract. Mixed it well and added a little alcohol. Daily put 5-6 drops on each boob and massage in. Use a hair dryer and warm my boobs and massage- thinking the heat opens the skin pours and allows the RC to penetrate my boobs --massage until dry. I try to pump my boobs at least once a day. Went from band size 40 over bust 46 to an over bust 47. Is it the pumping or the RC giving me the increase in size or both.. Would appreciate any thoughts on my regime? Does what I'm doing make any sense?

[Heaven's Night]

PM is ineffective in comparison to bioidentical hormones. The stuff in birth control pills is not progesterone, those are progestins which mimicprogesterones effect to some degree which might or might not be useful. I don't know which exact part is doing how much of it. But something is obviously working then.

I would suggest obviously to do the TCP correctly, ditch PM and progestin and instead do the DHEA + Progesterone + Estradiol route and maybe add RC extract and something to aid absorbtion.

[prostatenipple]

Can estriol (E3) be used instead of estradiol (E2)?

Can't find E2 on biovea site

Or is it enough to just have DHEA and Prog (eventually)?

Google AI says DHEA increases testosterone first, which then gets converted to estradiol. I think most of this 18 page thread says the same, however if we cannot easily get Estradiol cream, can we just increase the DHEA cream dose and add in some extra anti-androgens (specifically 5ar inhibitors like red reishi) to boost free testosterone and add some pro-aromatase to boost conversion into estradiol?

[Heaven's Night]

Don't trust prompt guessing machines to give you absolute truths on anything, I would check it and then cross reference with an old school search. 

What you missed is that topically used DHEA behaves differently from taking it orally.(Oral DHEA will raise estrogens, adnrogens and progesterone all at the same time and it can be beneficial when taken along with a good T blocker. I'm not sure about its benefits if used without a blocker. Note that I'm talking about its use on side of effective conventional HRT.) Lotus has mentioned it in multiple posts, that topical DHEA on breast tissue mainly boosts estrogenS, note that I mean all three usual forms of estrogen and the effect is mostly local. About how the possible conversions might happen, I'm not exactly sure about.

Obviously adrogen suppression and aromatase boosting will work in your favour. It can't hurt for sure.

You can try Estriol cream instead, I did a short test with E3 cream on its on topically, then as part of TCP at the early stages of exprimenting and it felt like it was helpful, definitely there was no harm in its use. Note that my doses were very moderate. Yes you can use DHEA and Prog without anything else, that is the basis of the antire TCP and it should be effective like that too. Just get the doses right and be consistent. But its obvious that the multiple additional pieces of the puzzle are beneficial.

Note about DHEA, if you want to ge it much cheaper and easier time to dose it higher, get 25mg capsules of micronised DHEA, then extract the powder and mix it with the prog cream or what ever cream base you have in use. It'll save you a lot of money and you can easily get the dose high enough. In my experience 50mg and higher is where it becomes truly effective and Lotus recommended 60mg split in two times a day. I do it every other day with somewhat higher doses for ease and saving some money. Also I believe that sort of a pulsed stimulation of receptors is beneficial in some things, TCP being one of them.

[prostatenipple]

Don't trust prompt guessing machines to give you absolute truths on anything, I would check it and then cross reference with an old school search. 

What you missed is that topically used DHEA behaves differently from taking it orally.(Oral DHEA will raise estrogens, adnrogens and progesterone all at the same time and it can be beneficial when taken along with a good T blocker. I'm not sure about its benefits if used without a blocker. Note that I'm talking about its use on side of effective conventional HRT.) Lotus has mentioned it in multiple posts, that topical DHEA on breast tissue mainly boosts estrogenS, note that I mean all three usual forms of estrogen and the effect is mostly local. About how the possible conversions might happen, I'm not exactly sure about.

Obviously adrogen suppression and aromatase boosting will work in your favour. It can't hurt for sure.

You can try Estriol cream instead, I did a short test with E3 cream on its on topically, then as part of TCP at the early stages of exprimenting and it felt like it was helpful, definitely there was no harm in its use. Note that my doses were very moderate. Yes you can use DHEA and Prog without anything else, that is the basis of the antire TCP and it should be effective like that too. Just get the doses right and be consistent. But its obvious that the multiple additional pieces of the puzzle are beneficial.

Note about DHEA, if you want to ge it much cheaper and easier time to dose it higher, get 25mg capsules of micronised DHEA, then extract the powder and mix it with the prog cream or what ever cream base you have in use. It'll save you a lot of money and you can easily get the dose high enough. In my experience 50mg and higher is where it becomes truly effective and Lotus recommended 60mg split in two times a day. I do it every other day with somewhat higher doses for ease and saving some money. Also I believe that sort of a pulsed stimulation of receptors is beneficial in some things, TCP being one of them.

Thank you 

Interesting reading.

I do have 3 or so tubes of DHEA cream from Biovea still. And 2 of progesterone cream.

From what you are saying, I should start using just the DHEA cream on my breasts and nipples and skip PM. And maybe use Progesterone cream.
Right?

I've budded on both sides, one side the NHS confirmed with ultrasound, the other side feels the same (but slightly smaller).

I dont have a big chest at all, looks quite small. Am I still in the phase that needs more estrogen (and therefore just DHEA cream) instead of in the phase where I need to work on side branching with Prog?

Earlier posts were confusing because it seemed like the TCP needed 3 things: estrogen cream, dhea cream, and progesterone cream. And maybe even RC in a cream suspension.

What is the normal DHEA / prog dose?
Each pump of the Biovea DHEA cream is 15mg DHEA, so that's 4 pumps per day, with 2 pumps in the morning and 2 pumps in the evening?
How much Prog cream should I use at this stage, if any at all?


Thank you!
I have lots of RR extract and spearmint and I can get more.

[Heaven's Night]

Thank you 

Interesting reading.

I do have 3 or so tubes of DHEA cream from Biovea still. And 2 of progesterone cream.

From what you are saying, I should start using just the DHEA cream on my breasts and nipples and skip PM. And maybe use Progesterone cream.
Right?

I've budded on both sides, one side the NHS confirmed with ultrasound, the other side feels the same (but slightly smaller).

I dont have a big chest at all, looks quite small. Am I still in the phase that needs more estrogen (and therefore just DHEA cream) instead of in the phase where I need to work on side branching with Prog?

Earlier posts were confusing because it seemed like the TCP needed 3 things: estrogen cream, dhea cream, and progesterone cream. And maybe even RC in a cream suspension.

What is the normal DHEA / prog dose?
Each pump of the Biovea DHEA cream is 15mg DHEA, so that's 4 pumps per day, with 2 pumps in the morning and 2 pumps in the evening?
How much Prog cream should I use at this stage, if any at all?


Thank you!
I have lots of RR extract and spearmint and I can get more.

I'm not extire sure about the use of PM on the side of this, but I would just skip it just to be sure there wont be receptor conflicts. And because there are so many better methods than PM. I'm obviously talking about bioidentical hormone treatments, TCP being one of them. And then of course using plant based stuff and vitamins, amino acids etc. to boost the effects and for the health benefits.

Don't overlook progesterone regardless of your development phase, its likely beneficial even at the very beginning. This is a thing that's about school of thought, people have differing ideas on how to proceed with Prog, I think it should be there all the way, especially when on conventional HRT. You don't need to worry about which way your boobs grow at first as they're following your genetic map for it and beginning stages are mostly all projection for quite long time. In T3 there's some fullness and T4 stage is almost solely projection and finally in T5 its both biut mostly side branching. That's the normal way it goes but there's a ton of YMMV situation here. Not two people are perfectly alike.

Those are the main ingredients of it which work amazingly together, but its DHEA and prog which together domost of the heavy lifting. It will work without additional estradiol, but having that makes it a bit more efficient. I'm speaking from my personal experience on this. 

There is no "normal" dose, just what has been recommended. I did 30mg/30mg on both of them at first, then later with some tweaking with how I'm sourcing stuff I've upped the DHEA incrementally and noted that higher is a bit better, with obviously effective dose starting at 50mg and getting better when higher. This may have quite a bit of individual variance. The 60mg split morning and evening is Lotus's recommendation. With prog it seems that more is more, I've been taking 200mg, right now on alternating days I take it boofed and on TCP days topically. 

I don't really know what to recommend as some kind of a one size fits all dosing, I think Lotus had a good idea on her recs, based on the idea of using the ready made creams for those doses obviously makes sense. For me, both quite a lot higher has been better approach as I've made it bit more affordable. (Note that the herbal additions, absorbtion enchancer etc., make TCP quite expensive, the basic form of it is cheaper.)

Perhaps you should use same dosing on both DHEA and Prog creams as you have them readily available?

This is what my topical program is currently, done every other day:
Approx 1ts 25% DMSO cream
200mg Prog from capsule
125mg Micronised DHEA as powder from capsules
2mg E2 from Estrogel
10 drops 100% Volufiline oil
20 drops RC extract
20 drops Ginseng extract
128ng(Nanograms) IGF-1 from 8 sprays Deer Antler Velvet
10000iu Vitamin D3

RC, Ginseng and Deer Antler Velvet are applied on and around areolas after the rest of the stuff is applied to keep it all in the target area. I took a break from having Cayenne extract in the mix due to my neck and shoulders having an eczema flare going on. Getting capsiacin on already inflamed and broken skin makes things a lot worse so I'm off of it for now.