[Pinnochia]

Lotus,,,When you mentioned the study on lavender and tea tree oil by the New England Journal,,  it got me wondering why so few accounts were used in their study,, and then the the things i suggested came to mind,

[Lotus]

Well that's been the hot topic since the 2007 study (why a small study) it's a good question for the scientists for. My guess is that was isolated to those 3 boys because of their gynecomastia, (I dunno). But.........you'll find rebuttals all over the scientific community disputing the results.

Like I said lol, keep an open mind and evaluate all the data.

[tanysquirrel]

their study,, and then the the things i suggested came to mind,

Well that's been the hot topic since the 2007 study (why a small study) it's a good question for the scientists for. My guess is that was isolated to those 3 boys because of their gynecomastia, (I dunno). But.........you'll find rebuttals all over the scientific community disputing the results.

Like I said lol, keep an open mind and evaluate all the data.

the rebuttals are most likely the outcry of the breast augmentation industry... why get implants when you can naturally grow them??? something along that line

[sabrielx92]

You seem to know a lot Lotus and I envy what you have accomplished! When you first started NBE did you have a flat chest? if so, what did you do to get breast growth? Also, what is SP and PC?

[jannet.duff]

You seem to know a lot Lotus and I envy what you have accomplished! When you first started NBE did you have a flat chest? if so, what did you do to get breast growth? Also, what is SP and PC?

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=1959

We use a lot of Acronyms on this site, hopefully this link will explain them all for you.

[bobie]

So if I read between the lines, pharma HRT effects ER-a, but PM effects ER-b. So, if I add some PM back into the mix it should assist growth rather than hinder it.

Yes E2 binds with ER-a, however!........bioidentical progesterone is still needed to complete ductal side branching (rounding). Too much prolactin produces tubular growth, while E2 produces elongation. Add in growth hormone and essential fatty acids and hopefully things start happening lol, (albeit a slow process).


I still wouldn't use PM with HrT:

miroestrol competes with estrogen and blocks the excessive stimulation of estrogen receptors often seen with breast or endometrial cancer.

How much prolactin is too much? as you may remember my levels have always been high, nearly double what the nhs would like at my last blood test

[charrr]

If some of y'all on this site would get together and open a walk-in clinic, many of us would appreciate it. Thanks in advance... Many thanks!

[Lotus]

You seem to know a lot Lotus and I envy what you have accomplished! When you first started NBE did you have a flat chest? if so, what did you do to get breast growth? Also, what is SP and PC?

Hi sabriel,

I did start with what we could call a typical male chest (ok, flat lol). When I started developing breast tissue (pre NBE) I was concerned and made an appt. to see my now former PCP of 12 years. Very nice Dr. [90 yrs. young lol], though very old school.

Anyways.......are you sure you want to hear about this? cause there will blood ((haha)), pain, self doubt & torture (true), and perhaps lack of proper guidance, but nothing more than a few visits (3-4 different shrinks actually) would cure huh?. Oh wait!, then there was the visit to the endo (jerk) who discouraged my path, which I think led to a dark period (1.5 yrs actually) ultimately that led me to my current doc (finally, a trans friendly Physician). Btw, the endo suggested I remove the breat tissue , that's after he said " yep, those are real female breasts. At the time my GID was heavy gender fluid, and when I mention it to him (the gender fluid) he became very annoyed at the mere mention of it, his quote " there's no such things, I don't believe in the gender variants, it's either your full transition or nothing ".........so I thought to myself ( " oh hell no, you mf'er " you just discriminated against me). And although some part of me told me to take his shitty advice it pushed me to a dark place that ended up going to DIY hormones, dangerous times indeed. As for the endo, I got a nice letter announcing his retirement shortly after. I wonder how many TG folks got his shitty care?. I was seeing (still am, no anti-depressants though) a shrink, number 4 (a great guy too), he found my current TG doc.

Getting back to pre-NBE (which wasn't even on the radar at the time) sent me for a mammogram, and was diagnosed with gyno (gynecomastia). So.......naturally seeking more info I jumped on the " World Wide Web " and found breast nexus, which I found inspiration from flamsabers, technical guidance from Abidrew and Isabelle. At that point I had what you would call puffy nipples, but the more important question is why did I want this path????, well, I still have my doubts about that, although I lean towards the thought my GID lay dormant (for years) and with the start of NBE, the walls (bells rang lol) came crashing down I guess.

I started with the typical NBE program of RC (red clover), FG (fenugreek) SP (saw palmetto), PC (progesterone cream), I stayed with that for about 6-8 months (if I remember correctly) which yielded about 1 cup increase. The next program i went with PM capsules (pueraria mirifica) add 1 cup more. I experimented with BO (w/disastrous infections) e.g. damaged my right eye permanently (a retinal hemorrhage, aka blood) requiring laser eye surgery to plug the leak. Add in a major ear/jaw infection, a trip to the ER for an acute bout of colitis, which was followed by a colonoscopy (btw, the prep was god awful) to rule out further problems. Which is the reason why I won't recommend BO (bovine ovary).

The 3-4th NBE program I went to extracts (for the most part), and then modified with different anti-androgens & pro aromatase supps........add 1-2 cups more growth from those mods. My idea (or thought process was to keep pushing with breast growth and some feminization), lol which obviously went further then expected ok. As I battled with GID, the two sides (male/female) clashed (still an epic throw down though) the female side demand(s) more control lmao, so call it what you will, meaning a two-spirit??, or non-binary gender/ gender fluid???, I'm still working on that part but I'm on path of transition, hey it works (or is working) for now. I will eventually add some essence to the female side (short term?? 3-6 months??? not sure), but I surely don't look like I did 2-3 years ago. Will I need cosmetics, maybe? maybe not, will see what HrT does in the near term first.

Sheesh, this has been therapeutic, thanks sabriel, I usually don't go this deep about myself lol (too boring imo lol) sorry for the long drawn out. whatever path you (we) take, finding the right care sometimes take a tortuous path (or journey) to find them (unfortunately). And sadly, good people are lost forever in this maddening process to find the right medical care, it needs to be fixed.

O, I did have a couple early puffy nipple pics up, but in a major dust up (here at BN) back in the day they were deleted (by me) (perhaps a discussion for another day).

[Lotus]

wow lotus! not only is this thread up to 370 pages, but it now has 374,800 views! Epic Threads in history!.

Lol thanks, so.......some peeps are looking in huh, that's cool. Hannah told me they have tiolet paper in Germany named lotus,  so hopefully it's not that bad.

[Lotus]

So if I read between the lines, pharma HRT effects ER-a, but PM effects ER-b. So, if I add some PM back into the mix it should assist growth rather than hinder it.

Yes E2 binds with ER-a, however!........bioidentical progesterone is still needed to complete ductal side branching (rounding). Too much prolactin produces tubular growth, while E2 produces elongation. Add in growth hormone and essential fatty acids and hopefully things start happening lol, (albeit a slow process).


I still wouldn't use PM with HrT:

miroestrol competes with estrogen and blocks the excessive stimulation of estrogen receptors often seen with breast or endometrial cancer.

How much prolactin is too much? as you may remember my levels have always been high, nearly double what the nhs would like at my last blood test

A few things stick out. Are the labs drawn at the times of the day (a few hours after waking up). I'd bet you have nil for T (or close to it, less than 25 ng/dL). Other things to look at are liver function, hypothyroidism, cirrhosis, stress, dopamine.

High prolactin could also mean you're having too much E2 in an HrT program.