24-06-2011, 11:14 AM
My herbal program(need opinions)
January 31 2008 at 5:04 AM Myname (no login)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so I did a lot of researching on this forum and I have decided on what herbs to get. But before I click the checkout button I wanted the advice of the people on this forum.
Keep in mind, all I want are breasts, I want to still be able to pleasure my wife and I'm sure she doesnt want me to lose that ability too.
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/WomensNut...-9778.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/SawPalmet...t-963.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/LicoriceRoot-24312.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/MilkThistle-31365.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/MexicanWildYam-7139.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/DongQuai-12563.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/BlackCohosh-24253.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/Fenugreek...13026.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/RedClover...-8134.html
What do you all think?
Am I missing anything, or am I getting something I dont need?
Oh and I already almost fill a B cup bra because I already have abnormally large breasts so I'm hoping I can turn some of the fat to real breast tissue.
Author Reply
Myname
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) January 31 2008, 5:18 AM
Also..is this site trustworthy? Can anyone recomment a good site to buy herbs?
Les
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) January 31 2008, 8:14 AM
It looks like a good site to me. They certainly have a large enough range of herbs there.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 1 2008, 8:20 PM
I got a great service from www.herbalextractsplus.com by buying the bulk powders. Make sure you don't order from outside the US though as I paid about $150 in tax and shipping to UK.
In general black cohosh and liquorice are bad for you if taken over a prolonged period of more than a few weeks and I doubt wild yam has anything useful in it as although progesterone can be derived from it in the lab your body doesn't work like that. Progesterone is actally made from vitamin C. Fenugreek and red clover shouldn't be used together. Red clover is very strong and has cause break-through bleeding and irregularities in the menstrual cycle.
- all of this is what I've gathered from reading the forum and doing my own internet research and not sure if it applies to biological males as well.
You may want to consider soy isoflavones, the one I have is from the website I put higher up and is the strongest I've seen at 10%. Also consider hops, avena sativa (oats) and barley grass - all of which can be added to oatmeal which can be made with soy milk or milk protein powder and water to be even better.
Eating a lot of protein, drinking a lot of water and taking omega oil supplements can help too.
Myname
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 1 2008, 11:17 PM
Thank you for the comment. I would still really like to get an opinion from someone who has tried these herbs to achieve what I am wanting to achieve. Also, since you said taking fenugreek and redclover together could possibly harm me, has anyone used these together before? Are there any herbs besides these that could do harm?
Fennel
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 2 2008, 6:43 PM
Dong Quai and Black Cohosh do work as estrogen boosters in women, BUT they boost testosterone in men. I have read the same about Avena Sativa and a lot of other products used for NBE - that they might have the reverse effect in the male system. Black Cohosh is also very toxic. I can't remember, but it might have been Red Clover that had the effect of making it harder for the blood to coagulate so make sure you have no illness that could get affected by this. Fenugreek I think, lowers the blood sugar.
I don't think you'll have to worry about any breakthrough bleedings however. :-)
If you want to keep your stuff in working order, make sure you start out on a low dose and ramp up slowly while you monitor yourself carefully, preferably in a diary.
tinhorse
(Login tinhorse) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 2 2008, 7:22 PM
Fennel is right. Red Clover will thin the blood.
Myname
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 3 2008, 2:58 AM
Ok so I have decided on this.
Fenugreek Seeds 1 a day
Mexican Wild Yams 1 a day
Milk Thistle 1 a day
Saw Palmetto Extract 1 a day
Women's Nutritional System - however many the bottle says to take
Red Clover Blossoms 1 every 2 days
After 3 weeks I'll double everything and see how that works out and adjust as needed.
One last question.
Caffeine... I drink 2-3 glasses of soda about every other day, I have heard caffeine is bad for breast development. Think this might effect growth?
Tinhorse
(Login tinhorse) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 4 2008, 5:36 PM
It is not that caffeine is directly bad for BE. Caffeine tends to make the body acidic. This effects the bodies ability to absorb nutrients. What you need to consider is that all the supplements you are taking are nutrients that the body uses. If you take caffeine at the same time, the body will have a hard time absorbing the nutrients you are using for BE. This could effect your results.
I would not worry and cut all caffeine, but if you could reduce it slightly, it may be beneficial. What you could do is try to make sure that you do not drink caffeine for an hour ore more after or before taking the herbs. Also take the herbs with a full 8oz glass of water. Increase your water intake altogether.
Fennel
(no login) Cut out the soda instead February 4 2008, 7:58 PM
Don't worry too much about the coffein. Limited amounts won't hurt. Soda on the other hand... Any carbonated drinks will make your the nutrient uptake in your stomack less effective so the herbs you take won't be absorbed fully. Same goes for vitamins and minerals in your food. You will get better effect from your herbs if you don't drink soda.
I would also recommend you to drink one or two cups of fennel tea a day.
Cecilia
(Login Ceciliaptgirl) better February 6 2008, 5:13 PM
I think your second program is better. The first had too many things to it. Too expensive. Hard to adjust.
I am taking fenugreek and red clover together. I have had no problem with blod clotting properly. I think this is not a major problem unless dosages are excessive and there are other problems/drugs involved. Both herbals are safe and have a lot of good qualities about them that they are probably worth taking on their own even without NBE goals.
I would spread out my dosages more. Instead of taking one a day, take stuff three times a day. Keeps these herbals in your body all the time. I have a box where I put all my dosages in for three times a day. Keep it in my briefcase. Works well.
I have read so much about coffee use and how it negates herbs. Wait twenty minutes before coffee - all those warnings. I have found no difference in this. If you take Saw Palmetto it could hurt your tummy and then caffeine would compound the problem. I take my herbs with coffee everday and they are working.
Licorice use IS dangerous long term. I have been using DGL instead. I think it has helped and it also keeps stomach irritation at bay. It has a good regulating effect of the other herbals.
Good luck with your program.
Sincerely - and with love,
Ceciliaptgirl
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 6 2008, 9:14 PM
Human growth hormone naturally peaks in the first couple of hours you're asleep, so I'd say divide your doses into four or five, take the last two doses together just before bed with a protein shake (avoid sugary stuff as it'll provoke insulin release) and spread the other doses as evenly as you can throughout your day.
Davilee
(Login Davata) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 12 2008, 2:46 PM
Hi.
Uhmm...the licorice root. This MAY cause hyper tension.MAY.
You have to take over 4-5 grams a day for 6-7 weeks for this to cause any probs.You take it for 6-7 weeks,then you break for 1-2 weeks..and take your milk thistle for liver cleansing.
Of course,people are different and this may not apply to all people.
This is what I've learned as a concensus guideline looking at many different advisories about Licorice in books.
I take quite alot of it...its what is responsible for my growth mainly I believe.
The DLG licorice..dont bother with it as it has the appropriate constituents removed ...its fairly useless for NBE.Thats just my opinion.
I had someone else that takes alot of Licorice,and they said the same thing.
They tried the DGL,and it didnt do anything for them.
I was taking more red clover,and I cut back because it didnt seem to do anything for me.Maybe I overdosed my receptors with all the things I was taking.
I'm taking Black Cohosh limitedly.
I still believe that kudzu and Licorice is going to be the best things.
They are what I started with and I havent been able to get any Kudzu lately,so I have been using licorice as the strong herb,in my program.
I think that most of the alarm over the sideffects of some of these herbs,is overblown. Unless ,someone is taking huge overdoses of some of these things,..they shouldnt be too worried.
Get worried if you start having real reactions to things.
Use your common sense.Dont take 12 caps of Red clover a day..or take 2000 mg of Black Cohosh or take 8 grams of licorice a day.
Im just being facetious,but..you get my meaning.
The herbs that most people have been getting alarmed over,are the ones that will do the most good. I'm still wondering about Black Cohosh.
I havent seen any indication in its chemical profile that it's going to effect testosterone though.
Dong Quai on the other hand you dont want that at all.It will stimulate the production of testosterone.
There are some obscure herbs that most people dont even know about.
Liferoot,Packera aurea
Broom,in the legume family
Motherwort
Red Clover has many different isoflavones,that are strong.
Hops do to...I would caution use of the Hops,in my opinion as they may cause aggravation of depression symptoms. This is just anecdotal.Its usually my experience with hops flowers used in an infusion.I have to limit my use of it.This may not apply to someone else as I have depression problems that is a family disease.
Hmmm....Im still not all that hip on Wild Yam either.
I havent been convinced that its all that useful.
Maybe as a weaker form of Progesterone.
Its contains Diosgenin,which is what they use to make some synth Prog. and also a synthetic estrogen.
I've been learning about some negative problems with Progesterone from the hormone group Im in.
Two different TG/TS groups folks have had many opinions about Prog, as being a hindrance to feminising...especially,for breast development.
In women,according to things that I have read,it does act as something akin to testosterone,in the respect that it helps stimulate sexual function.
I think that it is just its ability to lessen the effects of estrogens,and that in itself will effectively be like "acting" as an androgen.
I cant find anything in my notes on hormonal chemistry that shows that progesterone turns into an androgen ..or promotes androgen production.
>>>If anyone has info on this,please show me where your source is from,I would appreciate it very much.<<<
I think that its ok for men in small quantities if they are wanting to do NBE.
I think that it is needed for good breast development.
For TS folk,I would say that,if they are on Estrogen hormones,...the problem is that there is too many conflicting opinions,even in the "official" record.
There is evidence to suggest that some TS women on estrogens,their bodies begin to actually produce the necessary levels of progesterones and *some will begin to exhibit signs of hormonal gland production of that of normal women.This is in fact if they have had orchiectomys(sp?)
Some research says that Prog. is needed for counteracting the negative effects of estrogens.
Prog. is also needed for its ability to shut down the cancer cell activation switches in breast cells.
Estriol is also needed for that too.It counters any negative effects brought on by estradiol.
I know most everyone here,doesnt really have to worry about problems with hormones.Sorry to go on and on about it. >Davilee
January 31 2008 at 5:04 AM Myname (no login)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so I did a lot of researching on this forum and I have decided on what herbs to get. But before I click the checkout button I wanted the advice of the people on this forum.
Keep in mind, all I want are breasts, I want to still be able to pleasure my wife and I'm sure she doesnt want me to lose that ability too.
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/WomensNut...-9778.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/SawPalmet...t-963.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/LicoriceRoot-24312.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/MilkThistle-31365.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/MexicanWildYam-7139.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/DongQuai-12563.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/BlackCohosh-24253.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/Fenugreek...13026.html
http://www.herbs-wholesale.com/RedClover...-8134.html
What do you all think?
Am I missing anything, or am I getting something I dont need?
Oh and I already almost fill a B cup bra because I already have abnormally large breasts so I'm hoping I can turn some of the fat to real breast tissue.
Author Reply
Myname
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) January 31 2008, 5:18 AM
Also..is this site trustworthy? Can anyone recomment a good site to buy herbs?
Les
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) January 31 2008, 8:14 AM
It looks like a good site to me. They certainly have a large enough range of herbs there.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 1 2008, 8:20 PM
I got a great service from www.herbalextractsplus.com by buying the bulk powders. Make sure you don't order from outside the US though as I paid about $150 in tax and shipping to UK.
In general black cohosh and liquorice are bad for you if taken over a prolonged period of more than a few weeks and I doubt wild yam has anything useful in it as although progesterone can be derived from it in the lab your body doesn't work like that. Progesterone is actally made from vitamin C. Fenugreek and red clover shouldn't be used together. Red clover is very strong and has cause break-through bleeding and irregularities in the menstrual cycle.
- all of this is what I've gathered from reading the forum and doing my own internet research and not sure if it applies to biological males as well.
You may want to consider soy isoflavones, the one I have is from the website I put higher up and is the strongest I've seen at 10%. Also consider hops, avena sativa (oats) and barley grass - all of which can be added to oatmeal which can be made with soy milk or milk protein powder and water to be even better.
Eating a lot of protein, drinking a lot of water and taking omega oil supplements can help too.
Myname
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 1 2008, 11:17 PM
Thank you for the comment. I would still really like to get an opinion from someone who has tried these herbs to achieve what I am wanting to achieve. Also, since you said taking fenugreek and redclover together could possibly harm me, has anyone used these together before? Are there any herbs besides these that could do harm?
Fennel
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 2 2008, 6:43 PM
Dong Quai and Black Cohosh do work as estrogen boosters in women, BUT they boost testosterone in men. I have read the same about Avena Sativa and a lot of other products used for NBE - that they might have the reverse effect in the male system. Black Cohosh is also very toxic. I can't remember, but it might have been Red Clover that had the effect of making it harder for the blood to coagulate so make sure you have no illness that could get affected by this. Fenugreek I think, lowers the blood sugar.
I don't think you'll have to worry about any breakthrough bleedings however. :-)
If you want to keep your stuff in working order, make sure you start out on a low dose and ramp up slowly while you monitor yourself carefully, preferably in a diary.
tinhorse
(Login tinhorse) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 2 2008, 7:22 PM
Fennel is right. Red Clover will thin the blood.
Myname
(no login) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 3 2008, 2:58 AM
Ok so I have decided on this.
Fenugreek Seeds 1 a day
Mexican Wild Yams 1 a day
Milk Thistle 1 a day
Saw Palmetto Extract 1 a day
Women's Nutritional System - however many the bottle says to take
Red Clover Blossoms 1 every 2 days
After 3 weeks I'll double everything and see how that works out and adjust as needed.
One last question.
Caffeine... I drink 2-3 glasses of soda about every other day, I have heard caffeine is bad for breast development. Think this might effect growth?
Tinhorse
(Login tinhorse) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 4 2008, 5:36 PM
It is not that caffeine is directly bad for BE. Caffeine tends to make the body acidic. This effects the bodies ability to absorb nutrients. What you need to consider is that all the supplements you are taking are nutrients that the body uses. If you take caffeine at the same time, the body will have a hard time absorbing the nutrients you are using for BE. This could effect your results.
I would not worry and cut all caffeine, but if you could reduce it slightly, it may be beneficial. What you could do is try to make sure that you do not drink caffeine for an hour ore more after or before taking the herbs. Also take the herbs with a full 8oz glass of water. Increase your water intake altogether.
Fennel
(no login) Cut out the soda instead February 4 2008, 7:58 PM
Don't worry too much about the coffein. Limited amounts won't hurt. Soda on the other hand... Any carbonated drinks will make your the nutrient uptake in your stomack less effective so the herbs you take won't be absorbed fully. Same goes for vitamins and minerals in your food. You will get better effect from your herbs if you don't drink soda.
I would also recommend you to drink one or two cups of fennel tea a day.
Cecilia
(Login Ceciliaptgirl) better February 6 2008, 5:13 PM
I think your second program is better. The first had too many things to it. Too expensive. Hard to adjust.
I am taking fenugreek and red clover together. I have had no problem with blod clotting properly. I think this is not a major problem unless dosages are excessive and there are other problems/drugs involved. Both herbals are safe and have a lot of good qualities about them that they are probably worth taking on their own even without NBE goals.
I would spread out my dosages more. Instead of taking one a day, take stuff three times a day. Keeps these herbals in your body all the time. I have a box where I put all my dosages in for three times a day. Keep it in my briefcase. Works well.
I have read so much about coffee use and how it negates herbs. Wait twenty minutes before coffee - all those warnings. I have found no difference in this. If you take Saw Palmetto it could hurt your tummy and then caffeine would compound the problem. I take my herbs with coffee everday and they are working.
Licorice use IS dangerous long term. I have been using DGL instead. I think it has helped and it also keeps stomach irritation at bay. It has a good regulating effect of the other herbals.
Good luck with your program.
Sincerely - and with love,
Ceciliaptgirl
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 6 2008, 9:14 PM
Human growth hormone naturally peaks in the first couple of hours you're asleep, so I'd say divide your doses into four or five, take the last two doses together just before bed with a protein shake (avoid sugary stuff as it'll provoke insulin release) and spread the other doses as evenly as you can throughout your day.
Davilee
(Login Davata) Re: My herbal program(need opinions) February 12 2008, 2:46 PM
Hi.
Uhmm...the licorice root. This MAY cause hyper tension.MAY.
You have to take over 4-5 grams a day for 6-7 weeks for this to cause any probs.You take it for 6-7 weeks,then you break for 1-2 weeks..and take your milk thistle for liver cleansing.
Of course,people are different and this may not apply to all people.
This is what I've learned as a concensus guideline looking at many different advisories about Licorice in books.
I take quite alot of it...its what is responsible for my growth mainly I believe.
The DLG licorice..dont bother with it as it has the appropriate constituents removed ...its fairly useless for NBE.Thats just my opinion.
I had someone else that takes alot of Licorice,and they said the same thing.
They tried the DGL,and it didnt do anything for them.
I was taking more red clover,and I cut back because it didnt seem to do anything for me.Maybe I overdosed my receptors with all the things I was taking.
I'm taking Black Cohosh limitedly.
I still believe that kudzu and Licorice is going to be the best things.
They are what I started with and I havent been able to get any Kudzu lately,so I have been using licorice as the strong herb,in my program.
I think that most of the alarm over the sideffects of some of these herbs,is overblown. Unless ,someone is taking huge overdoses of some of these things,..they shouldnt be too worried.
Get worried if you start having real reactions to things.
Use your common sense.Dont take 12 caps of Red clover a day..or take 2000 mg of Black Cohosh or take 8 grams of licorice a day.
Im just being facetious,but..you get my meaning.
The herbs that most people have been getting alarmed over,are the ones that will do the most good. I'm still wondering about Black Cohosh.
I havent seen any indication in its chemical profile that it's going to effect testosterone though.
Dong Quai on the other hand you dont want that at all.It will stimulate the production of testosterone.
There are some obscure herbs that most people dont even know about.
Liferoot,Packera aurea
Broom,in the legume family
Motherwort
Red Clover has many different isoflavones,that are strong.
Hops do to...I would caution use of the Hops,in my opinion as they may cause aggravation of depression symptoms. This is just anecdotal.Its usually my experience with hops flowers used in an infusion.I have to limit my use of it.This may not apply to someone else as I have depression problems that is a family disease.
Hmmm....Im still not all that hip on Wild Yam either.
I havent been convinced that its all that useful.
Maybe as a weaker form of Progesterone.
Its contains Diosgenin,which is what they use to make some synth Prog. and also a synthetic estrogen.
I've been learning about some negative problems with Progesterone from the hormone group Im in.
Two different TG/TS groups folks have had many opinions about Prog, as being a hindrance to feminising...especially,for breast development.
In women,according to things that I have read,it does act as something akin to testosterone,in the respect that it helps stimulate sexual function.
I think that it is just its ability to lessen the effects of estrogens,and that in itself will effectively be like "acting" as an androgen.
I cant find anything in my notes on hormonal chemistry that shows that progesterone turns into an androgen ..or promotes androgen production.
>>>If anyone has info on this,please show me where your source is from,I would appreciate it very much.<<<
I think that its ok for men in small quantities if they are wanting to do NBE.
I think that it is needed for good breast development.
For TS folk,I would say that,if they are on Estrogen hormones,...the problem is that there is too many conflicting opinions,even in the "official" record.
There is evidence to suggest that some TS women on estrogens,their bodies begin to actually produce the necessary levels of progesterones and *some will begin to exhibit signs of hormonal gland production of that of normal women.This is in fact if they have had orchiectomys(sp?)
Some research says that Prog. is needed for counteracting the negative effects of estrogens.
Prog. is also needed for its ability to shut down the cancer cell activation switches in breast cells.
Estriol is also needed for that too.It counters any negative effects brought on by estradiol.
I know most everyone here,doesnt really have to worry about problems with hormones.Sorry to go on and on about it. >Davilee