(01-10-2011, 08:36 PM)Isabelle Wrote: Hi Karen,
Scroll down to the link to the tables of phyto-estrogen and phyto-progestin herbs:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=30122#pid30122
I have that list Isabelle .... I just wasn't sure what to do with ones that contain more than one ingrediant. Like Licorice really confused me.
And even Red Clover has Estrogen too.
Karen
Hi Karen,
That's why I started out with only two herbs: hops and fenugreek. Hops is the only anti-androgen, and fenugreek is the only source of progesterone and prolactin. The phyto-estrogen is mainly from hops, only a little from the diosgenin in fenugreek. The hops-fenugreek combination is safe: you just increase doses until you get growth.
But the hops got me depressed. I added maca for mood, but it made me estrogen dominant. I increased fenugreek above hops to add some progesterone.
Then I added goat's rue for more swelling without adding more progesterone than needed, because I was afraid progesterone would stop growth. Lately, I've been taking hops with a light meal, to digest some more xanthohumol (anti-androgen) to 8-prenylnaringenin (phyto-estrogen). I always felt hops had too much anti-androgen.
I do not have much wiggle room around this program. The algebra is also important: I need to control four hormones, so I need four handles on the program:
I want to get estrogen as high as possible with maca.
Hops keeps DHT under control.
Fenugreek prevents estrogen dominance.
Goat's rue maximizes swelling.
That's why I started out with only two herbs: hops and fenugreek. Hops is the only anti-androgen, and fenugreek is the only source of progesterone and prolactin. The phyto-estrogen is mainly from hops, only a little from the diosgenin in fenugreek. The hops-fenugreek combination is safe: you just increase doses until you get growth.
But the hops got me depressed. I added maca for mood, but it made me estrogen dominant. I increased fenugreek above hops to add some progesterone.
Then I added goat's rue for more swelling without adding more progesterone than needed, because I was afraid progesterone would stop growth. Lately, I've been taking hops with a light meal, to digest some more xanthohumol (anti-androgen) to 8-prenylnaringenin (phyto-estrogen). I always felt hops had too much anti-androgen.
I do not have much wiggle room around this program. The algebra is also important: I need to control four hormones, so I need four handles on the program:
I want to get estrogen as high as possible with maca.
Hops keeps DHT under control.
Fenugreek prevents estrogen dominance.
Goat's rue maximizes swelling.
(02-10-2011, 04:28 AM)Isabelle Wrote: ... and fenugreek is the only source of progesterone and prolactin.
I see that there is a "Fenugreek Tea" ..... wonder what that tastes like
For sure it's something that I could keep around. Then there's always the idea of adding some amount of Fenugreek capsules to the plan. I'm getting the sense that my body is very "receptive" to the slightest amount of herbs. Using only 120 or so drops of the Hops Liquid Extract that I have plus my TRT was enough to kick things off. From what you calculated that isn't every much Hops. I didn't have any hops yesterday ... just a large mug of licorice tea to see what difference it would make. The soreness in my boobs got "lots" less .... I'm also thinking that the Hops is giving me lower back aches ... they seem to come and go with taking or not taking Hops.
I've also found a very accurate way to regulate the Testosterone in my Body. I have a scale that will measure in "grains" ... found that 1 Full Tube of my T Gel contains 70 grains of Gel. The scale is accurate enough that I can measure it precsiely to any increment that I want. One Full tube was putting my T- Levels up too high for my age group to begin with .... should have been around 550 .... it goes to around 750 with one tube. If I weigh it out to around 40 grains I think that I'll end up allot closer to the proper T Range to start. That will also get my DHT and Estradiol to a more normal starting place. I don't like the idea (without herbs in the picture) of my levels being way off to begin with.
Thanks for your insight .... Karen
I forgot to add before. One thing that I am REALLY liking about the Hops and the Teas .... I can start and stop them WITHOUT any feelings of withdrawal of anxiousness or anything. I was concerned that when I stopped the hops after 3 days that I may have a hard time falling asleep since it does has sedative qualities ... not the case .... I feel asleep NO PROBLEM .... so far my opinion is this .... Individual Herbs are allot more work than PM .... BUT I know exactly what I am taking, I can control it better, and so far no dependancies.
K
This post was last modified: 02-10-2011, 06:02 AM by karen.
Hear Hear, Karen,
That's why I like hops and fenugreek so much. They don't cause too much trouble. JennyA is testing a program with licorice as the basic herb, and Onicemile did something similar.
Fennel is a phyto-progestin, and it boosts prolactin. TRT, hops, and fennel is also a complete program. But I like fenugreek and goat's rue to slim my waist.
The traditional program on the male forum was based on red clover. That requires less fenugreek than hops, because red clover is already half phyto-progestin.
So there are different options, but only a few balanced, successful programs. You know what you are doing: you'll come up with your own
That's why I like hops and fenugreek so much. They don't cause too much trouble. JennyA is testing a program with licorice as the basic herb, and Onicemile did something similar.
Fennel is a phyto-progestin, and it boosts prolactin. TRT, hops, and fennel is also a complete program. But I like fenugreek and goat's rue to slim my waist.
The traditional program on the male forum was based on red clover. That requires less fenugreek than hops, because red clover is already half phyto-progestin.
So there are different options, but only a few balanced, successful programs. You know what you are doing: you'll come up with your own
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