27-06-2011, 09:41 AM
Overwhelmed
October 23 2007 at 11:18 AM Michele Todd (Login Michele192)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
Newbie here. I am friends with wishfulthinking. She has been trying to tutor be in the ways of growing breasts. Let me tell you my short story and maybe I can get some advice on how to proceed. I am considering herbs as opposed to hormones as it seems like a less invasive way although maybe not as effective of a way to increase the size of my breasts. I am a male 2 female transexual and have taken bothing as of yet to increase them.
I want to get started but...I had a heart attack 4 months ago and I need to make sure the herbs i take are not harmful with the heart medication I am taking. I am taking Toprol, Plavix, Aspirin, Lipitor & Zoloft. How do I know what to start with? I will be seeing my Dr tomorrow and want to give him a list of possible herbs I may take to see if they would be ok with my meds. Any advice and imput would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help,
michele
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Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: Overwhelmed October 23 2007, 2:55 PM
Hey how ya doin M? My husband had quad by pass surgury 3 years ago, I know most of what you have been through and here to tell you to have great caution with herbs or anything else. Herbs thin blood, which in turn lower Blood pressure, and you will already be taken BP meds and blood thinning meds. Also herbs can ulter blood clotting ability. No, you don't want blood clots, but you don't want to make yourself into a bleeder either. Herbs greatly affect hormones, which in turn affect heart function. Hormone replacement would raise BP and make heart work harder. A tip, off subject, never over eat to the point of stuffed makes your heart have to work really hard and also never sleep with arms above head, same reason. Sorry I can't really tell you what you CAN take, you have a very touchy health issue, and your heart health is the most important. So anyway take care and good luck at docs tomorrow.
Edit Message Delete Message
Miles
(no login) Re: Overwhelmed October 23 2007, 8:38 PM
Hi Michele,
I am currently taking Spironolactone for signs of excess androgens (male pattern balding and acne as well as some facial hair). I am a biological female. I did read that spironolactone is actually a heart medication although also acts on the hormones to block androgens and DHT which helps for NBE and male to female transition. Maybe you could talk with your doctor and see if this is a good drug for your heart problem and then it would also be effective in helping your transition. A 2-in-1, so to speak.
Edit Message Delete Message
Michele Todd
(Login Michele192) Thanks October 24 2007, 10:54 AM
Thank you for your responses.
I see the Dr today and will ask him about Spiro.
I am nervous about the herbs now. I am not sure what to do. I just think I need a heart to heart with my Therapist and PCP.
Thanks again
Michele
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: Overwhelmed October 24 2007, 4:02 PM
Not all herbs thin the blood,thats the least problematic of their effects some are feverfew and ginko and willow,, there are many
Most of the ones used for feminisation,effect bloodsugar,thats the activity of estrogenics.
Fenugreek lowers BS
Several of the strong estrogenics raise BP.
Licorice raises BP by having hypertension effects.
I have mentioned several times that If you take fish oils and/or most EFA's(essential fatty acids;ie.EPO,borage oil.)and/or Olive oil AND cayenne pepper AND Garlic then that reduces your LDL cholesterol levels and chemically prevents your blood platelets from sticking together,no matter what your problems or influences.
They also tend to clean the arteries of fatty plaques.
There are many more herbs that prevent blood aggregation.
Blood thinning and blood unaggregation are not always the same things.
Anyone who has heart conditions should be very careful of taking some of the estrogenic herbs.
Edit Message Delete Message
wishfulthinking
(Login wishfullthinking) Basic program October 24 2007, 10:59 PM
Hi Michele glad you are here, Davilee what is your take on a basic program to start of Saw palmetto,fenugreek, and red clover, If you get Sprio for BP drop the Saw. How would just Fenugreek and Red clover effect the heart Comments from any one welcome please. Also what effect of progresteron cream.
Edit Message Delete Message
Michele Todd
(Login Michele192) Doctors visit October 25 2007, 1:53 AM
Well I had my Doctors visit today. I am not encouraged by that. I did notice one thing though.
I had told my Dr I was TG before but when I told him today I was planning on transitioning his hands started shaking. I was up front with him. I wanted to get a prescription for Spiro. He increased the dosage on my Toprol from 100mg to 150mg instead of the Spiro. He told me to definately not take the Herbs because some are dangerous and none have been proven. He told me that even the hormone sources have "natural" roots. And they have had the studies done on them. So I asked him about taking estogen combined with Spiro and he said he can not recommend it. H is passing the buck to the Cardiolgist who I do not see until dec 24th. I know what he will say....what are you crazy. And i doubt if my therapist will approve any hormones.
I know I need to take charge of my own health. Being stable as Michele is part of myb health too. I will be patiend until December and we'll see how this plays out. In the meantime I will continure to become informed so when the appropriate time comes I will be ready.
Thanks for each of your imputs on my concerns.
michele
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: Overwhelmed October 25 2007, 6:42 AM
Hiya Wish' and Michele,glad to see ya both here at the same time.....
Oh Michele dont feel like your alone....I feel like you do as to the need to identify and be recognised as a woman....when I finally righted my mind problems as I had repressed my real self for so long,I have felt so much better about myself and life.
Thats not to say that I dont have a whole new set of problems to overcome in the near future. I want to transition *NOW*,,hahaha...oh I keep telling others to have patience about things and Im such a weak person.
I just want to give up sometimes,as I see my various procedures I need stretched out over several years..and I get so discouraged.
I'm not going full SRS or anything,but I do plan on some facial and throat surgeries and a lot of hair removal sessions.
Well,I dont see anything wrong with that combo.None of them cause any BP problems that I can find.
You may want to consider Sage and Rosemary also.
They both have estrogenic abilities,especially sage.My good herb directory describes sage as having estrogenic effects on the body.
I have read alot about cayenne peppers ability to lower blood pressure.
I have read many patient stories about how they cured themselves of high BP by just taking CyP everyday.There are many doctors that prescribe it now for healing heart and arterial diseases.
Kudzu lowers BP also,and it has many phytoestrogens.
Hops,are said to "be useful for cardiovascular disorders".I need to study more on that.
I started adding sage in with my rosemary and fennel and anise.
I also add hops and chickweed into the same cup.
This is a very busy tea. I had some sharper pains,inside my breasts just after taking the sage for a day.I also had more sharper aches around my breasts,below and besides,and in between,which was odd.
Now,Sage is supposed to be an Anti-galactagogue,which is odd,...so, I had avoided using it,as I wanted to have galactagogue effects such as raised prolactin and such...so I was surprised that I still got aches..and sharp ones on top of that.
I just done know whats goin' on sometimes.It doesnt make sense.
If I can find out some more things for you I will let you know.
Yes,Michele,its daunting and scary to consider deciding your own health regimine. Perhaps you can try the Spiro.and stop taking one of your other BP drugs for a time to see if the Spiro. will help out in that respect.
I havent had time to look at Spiro's chemical profile and see what can interfere with it.
Edit Message Delete Message
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Overwhelmed October 25 2007, 1:48 PM
Hi Michele,
Here is something to ponder. In women, estrogen levels that are not balance by progesterone are considered bad for the heart. So if you do chose to use estrogenic herbs it would be wise to also use progesterone.
Something else that I don't think anyone has mentioned. What about a breast pump? Some of the women on the main board and on the breast pump board have been using a low cost pump (Bosom beauty or something like that- and the other is called Noogle...something). They have achieved impressive effects that last anywhere from 2 - 8 hours after 30 minute session on each breast per day.
I know temporary is not what you are after and if you are starting with very little breast tissue you may not get HUGE - but it might make you feel a little like you are heading in the right direction. AND it will have no negative health effects.
Here is to your continued health,
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: Overwhelmed October 26 2007, 9:07 AM
Hi Waxingmoon. (Michele and Anony...I get to you down below)
Yah, I have a special soapbox over here that I reserve for yelling the positive reasons for using progesterone.I seem to be retelling the same things over and over...but I dont mind repeating myself if it will help someone.
I try and get across all the positive points over on DIYHormones group also,but some of them are like, so mean,they will attack you for trying to suggest something about progesterone.What some of them have against PROG,I have no idea.I just get so upset about that site sometimes. I hesitate to even go there much of the time.
However,there are alot of good positive people there also,and they make me feel better with there good transition descriptions.
Then I feel bad for another reason....envy.
Anyway,..I keep telling them about all the studys and such...some are like talking to walls there.They have these "big chips on there shoulders"...about what exactly I'm not sure.
I will tell ya one thing,certain time of the months now,I must get some stronger natural hormone increases along with my boosting,and OMG...the horrible headaches and back/body aches....Well, the PROG does seem to help,as I tried my "period's" without it and with it...and I definitely like the "with" experience much better.I still get some twingey pelvis pains,but I think there are several things going on with that.
For instance,I have stopped my PROG for one day to see how I will feel right now.....and I feel my lower back and pelvis are really starting to get way achey,and I'm getting more body aches again....I have kept up my herbal regimine......to see what I feel like through this particular time.
I have a bit of a headache right now,but not bad yet.I will just take my ibuprofin.
...but like I said,Im an unique case and some things I do dont work for others.
Hey Michele and Anony,have you considered finding a naturopath to go to??
A good one is trained as a med.doc. and is familiar with pharma drugs and will know by talking to you and seeing your records,what exactly you can replace with herbals.They are trained in natural, or homeopathic medicine and usually other facets of this also,like accupressure and chiropractic.
If you find the proper combo of herbs,you may be able to get off a lot of those drugs.
Hey,dont let that standard medicine doc. sit there and try and tell you that the herbs havent been proved,thats a huge lie....there are loads and loads of European medical research on all kinds of herbs used for all types of ailments. They have been proved to work.
Dont listen to someone who is not actually informed of whats really going on.
He should be ashamed of himself.He sounds like another Pharma Industry shill.
Did you know that many of the Doc's only get their info about natural medicine from articles posted by the big drug co's??
Soooo,of course they dont know whats the heck is really going on.
I'd get to a real natural medicine Doc and they will give you the straight story,and give you some alternatives.
Because,really,many of the statin drugs and others are not as safe as they claim.
Did you know that the drug Co's,can keep redoing and discarding research tests,until they get a favorable result....this is like for FDA approval and such......there are so many drugs that have repeatedly shown to either not work properly or actually endanger peoples lives.
Then there is the other testing that shows when a herbal medication is compared with the action of a pharma drug,the herbal will show more positive effects than the pharma,...and the pharma wont have any good effect or will even cause more side effects.
Alright,I will get off my "disdain for pharma co's" soapbox now.
Edit Message Delete Message
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Overwhelmed October 26 2007, 2:01 PM
Hey Michele,
Just one more thing. Look up CoQ10 also known as ubiquinone or ubiquinol. This has nothing to do with NBE but everything to do with your heart. They have studied the levels of CoQ10 in those who have heart trouble of various sorts and usually find it is lower than normal. The body absorbs this supplement very well and many of the reports I have read say it is essential for those who have had a heart attack in preventing a recurrance. The ubiquinol form is very potent and absorbs very well. It is especially important for those who take statin drugs because one of the side effects of statins is to lower your CoQ10 level.
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
Michele
(Login Michele192) CoQ10 October 26 2007, 4:42 PM
I have done some reaserch on CoQ10 as well. Funny thing is, before my heart attack my dr wanted to put me on lipitor. My LDL was 119 and he wanted it under 100. I brought him some studies on the depletion of CoQ10 in the body when one is on a statin like Lipitor. He didn't get back to me for a month. Then my heart attack. Since then I have been put on Lipitor. I also told the dr I was taking CoQ10 as well. He agreed because he said the studies have at least some validity. Total cholesterol now is 119 and my LDL is 59. So i don't want to mess with those results.
October 23 2007 at 11:18 AM Michele Todd (Login Michele192)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
Newbie here. I am friends with wishfulthinking. She has been trying to tutor be in the ways of growing breasts. Let me tell you my short story and maybe I can get some advice on how to proceed. I am considering herbs as opposed to hormones as it seems like a less invasive way although maybe not as effective of a way to increase the size of my breasts. I am a male 2 female transexual and have taken bothing as of yet to increase them.
I want to get started but...I had a heart attack 4 months ago and I need to make sure the herbs i take are not harmful with the heart medication I am taking. I am taking Toprol, Plavix, Aspirin, Lipitor & Zoloft. How do I know what to start with? I will be seeing my Dr tomorrow and want to give him a list of possible herbs I may take to see if they would be ok with my meds. Any advice and imput would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help,
michele
Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Author Reply
Snowflake
(Login GoldSnowflake)
EVE MEMBERS Re: Overwhelmed October 23 2007, 2:55 PM
Hey how ya doin M? My husband had quad by pass surgury 3 years ago, I know most of what you have been through and here to tell you to have great caution with herbs or anything else. Herbs thin blood, which in turn lower Blood pressure, and you will already be taken BP meds and blood thinning meds. Also herbs can ulter blood clotting ability. No, you don't want blood clots, but you don't want to make yourself into a bleeder either. Herbs greatly affect hormones, which in turn affect heart function. Hormone replacement would raise BP and make heart work harder. A tip, off subject, never over eat to the point of stuffed makes your heart have to work really hard and also never sleep with arms above head, same reason. Sorry I can't really tell you what you CAN take, you have a very touchy health issue, and your heart health is the most important. So anyway take care and good luck at docs tomorrow.
Edit Message Delete Message
Miles
(no login) Re: Overwhelmed October 23 2007, 8:38 PM
Hi Michele,
I am currently taking Spironolactone for signs of excess androgens (male pattern balding and acne as well as some facial hair). I am a biological female. I did read that spironolactone is actually a heart medication although also acts on the hormones to block androgens and DHT which helps for NBE and male to female transition. Maybe you could talk with your doctor and see if this is a good drug for your heart problem and then it would also be effective in helping your transition. A 2-in-1, so to speak.
Edit Message Delete Message
Michele Todd
(Login Michele192) Thanks October 24 2007, 10:54 AM
Thank you for your responses.
I see the Dr today and will ask him about Spiro.
I am nervous about the herbs now. I am not sure what to do. I just think I need a heart to heart with my Therapist and PCP.
Thanks again
Michele
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: Overwhelmed October 24 2007, 4:02 PM
Not all herbs thin the blood,thats the least problematic of their effects some are feverfew and ginko and willow,, there are many
Most of the ones used for feminisation,effect bloodsugar,thats the activity of estrogenics.
Fenugreek lowers BS
Several of the strong estrogenics raise BP.
Licorice raises BP by having hypertension effects.
I have mentioned several times that If you take fish oils and/or most EFA's(essential fatty acids;ie.EPO,borage oil.)and/or Olive oil AND cayenne pepper AND Garlic then that reduces your LDL cholesterol levels and chemically prevents your blood platelets from sticking together,no matter what your problems or influences.
They also tend to clean the arteries of fatty plaques.
There are many more herbs that prevent blood aggregation.
Blood thinning and blood unaggregation are not always the same things.
Anyone who has heart conditions should be very careful of taking some of the estrogenic herbs.
Edit Message Delete Message
wishfulthinking
(Login wishfullthinking) Basic program October 24 2007, 10:59 PM
Hi Michele glad you are here, Davilee what is your take on a basic program to start of Saw palmetto,fenugreek, and red clover, If you get Sprio for BP drop the Saw. How would just Fenugreek and Red clover effect the heart Comments from any one welcome please. Also what effect of progresteron cream.
Edit Message Delete Message
Michele Todd
(Login Michele192) Doctors visit October 25 2007, 1:53 AM
Well I had my Doctors visit today. I am not encouraged by that. I did notice one thing though.
I had told my Dr I was TG before but when I told him today I was planning on transitioning his hands started shaking. I was up front with him. I wanted to get a prescription for Spiro. He increased the dosage on my Toprol from 100mg to 150mg instead of the Spiro. He told me to definately not take the Herbs because some are dangerous and none have been proven. He told me that even the hormone sources have "natural" roots. And they have had the studies done on them. So I asked him about taking estogen combined with Spiro and he said he can not recommend it. H is passing the buck to the Cardiolgist who I do not see until dec 24th. I know what he will say....what are you crazy. And i doubt if my therapist will approve any hormones.
I know I need to take charge of my own health. Being stable as Michele is part of myb health too. I will be patiend until December and we'll see how this plays out. In the meantime I will continure to become informed so when the appropriate time comes I will be ready.
Thanks for each of your imputs on my concerns.
michele
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: Overwhelmed October 25 2007, 6:42 AM
Hiya Wish' and Michele,glad to see ya both here at the same time.....
Oh Michele dont feel like your alone....I feel like you do as to the need to identify and be recognised as a woman....when I finally righted my mind problems as I had repressed my real self for so long,I have felt so much better about myself and life.
Thats not to say that I dont have a whole new set of problems to overcome in the near future. I want to transition *NOW*,,hahaha...oh I keep telling others to have patience about things and Im such a weak person.
I just want to give up sometimes,as I see my various procedures I need stretched out over several years..and I get so discouraged.
I'm not going full SRS or anything,but I do plan on some facial and throat surgeries and a lot of hair removal sessions.
Well,I dont see anything wrong with that combo.None of them cause any BP problems that I can find.
You may want to consider Sage and Rosemary also.
They both have estrogenic abilities,especially sage.My good herb directory describes sage as having estrogenic effects on the body.
I have read alot about cayenne peppers ability to lower blood pressure.
I have read many patient stories about how they cured themselves of high BP by just taking CyP everyday.There are many doctors that prescribe it now for healing heart and arterial diseases.
Kudzu lowers BP also,and it has many phytoestrogens.
Hops,are said to "be useful for cardiovascular disorders".I need to study more on that.
I started adding sage in with my rosemary and fennel and anise.
I also add hops and chickweed into the same cup.
This is a very busy tea. I had some sharper pains,inside my breasts just after taking the sage for a day.I also had more sharper aches around my breasts,below and besides,and in between,which was odd.
Now,Sage is supposed to be an Anti-galactagogue,which is odd,...so, I had avoided using it,as I wanted to have galactagogue effects such as raised prolactin and such...so I was surprised that I still got aches..and sharp ones on top of that.
I just done know whats goin' on sometimes.It doesnt make sense.
If I can find out some more things for you I will let you know.
Yes,Michele,its daunting and scary to consider deciding your own health regimine. Perhaps you can try the Spiro.and stop taking one of your other BP drugs for a time to see if the Spiro. will help out in that respect.
I havent had time to look at Spiro's chemical profile and see what can interfere with it.
Edit Message Delete Message
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Overwhelmed October 25 2007, 1:48 PM
Hi Michele,
Here is something to ponder. In women, estrogen levels that are not balance by progesterone are considered bad for the heart. So if you do chose to use estrogenic herbs it would be wise to also use progesterone.
Something else that I don't think anyone has mentioned. What about a breast pump? Some of the women on the main board and on the breast pump board have been using a low cost pump (Bosom beauty or something like that- and the other is called Noogle...something). They have achieved impressive effects that last anywhere from 2 - 8 hours after 30 minute session on each breast per day.
I know temporary is not what you are after and if you are starting with very little breast tissue you may not get HUGE - but it might make you feel a little like you are heading in the right direction. AND it will have no negative health effects.
Here is to your continued health,
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
Davilee
(Login Davi-lee) Re: Overwhelmed October 26 2007, 9:07 AM
Hi Waxingmoon. (Michele and Anony...I get to you down below)
Yah, I have a special soapbox over here that I reserve for yelling the positive reasons for using progesterone.I seem to be retelling the same things over and over...but I dont mind repeating myself if it will help someone.
I try and get across all the positive points over on DIYHormones group also,but some of them are like, so mean,they will attack you for trying to suggest something about progesterone.What some of them have against PROG,I have no idea.I just get so upset about that site sometimes. I hesitate to even go there much of the time.
However,there are alot of good positive people there also,and they make me feel better with there good transition descriptions.
Then I feel bad for another reason....envy.
Anyway,..I keep telling them about all the studys and such...some are like talking to walls there.They have these "big chips on there shoulders"...about what exactly I'm not sure.
I will tell ya one thing,certain time of the months now,I must get some stronger natural hormone increases along with my boosting,and OMG...the horrible headaches and back/body aches....Well, the PROG does seem to help,as I tried my "period's" without it and with it...and I definitely like the "with" experience much better.I still get some twingey pelvis pains,but I think there are several things going on with that.
For instance,I have stopped my PROG for one day to see how I will feel right now.....and I feel my lower back and pelvis are really starting to get way achey,and I'm getting more body aches again....I have kept up my herbal regimine......to see what I feel like through this particular time.
I have a bit of a headache right now,but not bad yet.I will just take my ibuprofin.
...but like I said,Im an unique case and some things I do dont work for others.
Hey Michele and Anony,have you considered finding a naturopath to go to??
A good one is trained as a med.doc. and is familiar with pharma drugs and will know by talking to you and seeing your records,what exactly you can replace with herbals.They are trained in natural, or homeopathic medicine and usually other facets of this also,like accupressure and chiropractic.
If you find the proper combo of herbs,you may be able to get off a lot of those drugs.
Hey,dont let that standard medicine doc. sit there and try and tell you that the herbs havent been proved,thats a huge lie....there are loads and loads of European medical research on all kinds of herbs used for all types of ailments. They have been proved to work.
Dont listen to someone who is not actually informed of whats really going on.
He should be ashamed of himself.He sounds like another Pharma Industry shill.
Did you know that many of the Doc's only get their info about natural medicine from articles posted by the big drug co's??
Soooo,of course they dont know whats the heck is really going on.
I'd get to a real natural medicine Doc and they will give you the straight story,and give you some alternatives.
Because,really,many of the statin drugs and others are not as safe as they claim.
Did you know that the drug Co's,can keep redoing and discarding research tests,until they get a favorable result....this is like for FDA approval and such......there are so many drugs that have repeatedly shown to either not work properly or actually endanger peoples lives.
Then there is the other testing that shows when a herbal medication is compared with the action of a pharma drug,the herbal will show more positive effects than the pharma,...and the pharma wont have any good effect or will even cause more side effects.
Alright,I will get off my "disdain for pharma co's" soapbox now.
Edit Message Delete Message
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Overwhelmed October 26 2007, 2:01 PM
Hey Michele,
Just one more thing. Look up CoQ10 also known as ubiquinone or ubiquinol. This has nothing to do with NBE but everything to do with your heart. They have studied the levels of CoQ10 in those who have heart trouble of various sorts and usually find it is lower than normal. The body absorbs this supplement very well and many of the reports I have read say it is essential for those who have had a heart attack in preventing a recurrance. The ubiquinol form is very potent and absorbs very well. It is especially important for those who take statin drugs because one of the side effects of statins is to lower your CoQ10 level.
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
Michele
(Login Michele192) CoQ10 October 26 2007, 4:42 PM
I have done some reaserch on CoQ10 as well. Funny thing is, before my heart attack my dr wanted to put me on lipitor. My LDL was 119 and he wanted it under 100. I brought him some studies on the depletion of CoQ10 in the body when one is on a statin like Lipitor. He didn't get back to me for a month. Then my heart attack. Since then I have been put on Lipitor. I also told the dr I was taking CoQ10 as well. He agreed because he said the studies have at least some validity. Total cholesterol now is 119 and my LDL is 59. So i don't want to mess with those results.