Breast Growth For Genetic Males

So how do we cope when we see pictures of the newly born Caitlyn Jenner?

I think it is brilliant for her and she looks a million dollars on the front of Vanity Fair - but how does that make the rest of us feel?

I for one am struggling big time with feelings of "is it all worth it as I will never have the resources to look anything half way to as stunning as she does".

I already had major issues surrounding appearance (which is why I have never posted pictures here) - I know that as of now I still look like a bloke in female clothing - and this actually doesn't help that insecurity one little bit.

Speaking with Vivien (my SO), she reckons that as a cis female she is resigned (I am not sure that is quite the right word) to her physical appearance and aware of her limitations (she does herself a great injustice in this statement actually). I wonder whether growing up as a cis female you just grow up as the person you are and never really seriously question it or perhaps you do, just a bit. Indeed whilst living the male life, I didn't ever really think about my looks at all - it was just who I was.

Now though, that has changed and I am thinking a lot about my looks and the person I long to be appearancewise. This is seriously new and challenging territory particularly as there are not unlimited resources to throw at surgical solutions, nor do I have a particularly female body/face structure to start from.

The Caitlyn pictures have actually re-inforced some of these feelings - I know its foolish and the rational side of me says 'so what, do the best you can' - but I am at heart a perfectionist and it is hard to accept second best.

Would be interested to hear what others think.

Please don't get me wrong, I am happy beyond words for Caitlyn, this is definitely not 'sour grapes' in any shape or form - I think it fantastic that she has managed to achieve such a stunning success and great that she has raised the profile of transgrenderism to the world.


Miranda

Perfection is a slippery concept. It can mean conforming to a stereotype, but surely there's not only one way to perfection but a thousand ways. I think you have a partner who's proud to be with you. Go out and be yourself, with pride. Pride is in fact another concept with difficult edges to it, but every example of humanity can be magnificent and beautiful, whether male, female, or cant-quite-tell.

Hi Miranda,
I wanted to add my perspective. Maybe it will be helpful, maybe not.

Think you can't transition? Think again

Clara

Thanks Clara for the pep talk, I really appreciate it.

Up to now, I have been sailing through the transition process with virtually no issues whatsoever, the whole process has just seemed to flow naturally without too much in the way of dramas or crises. This is the first real crisis and it has completely surprised and alarmed me that mentally I am far more fragile than I had realised.

I've been sort of struggling with the implications of this since the Bruce Jenner story first broke and have been trying to sort out in my head how I am going to be able to cope with a mirror image that does not meet up to my preconceived ideas of how I want to look. As I said before, I am definitely not at odds with what she is doing at all and wish her every success; what she has done though is to raise to the forefront of my mind an issue which I was always going to have to address at some stage..

It is a major, major reality check to realise that unlike the fairy story, the swan I feel inside might have to remain, at least to some degree, in the body of a duckling.

However, the piece you have just posted in your thread and mentioned above certainly does give significant hope thanks for taking the time to pen it.

I am sure this is just a blip really and the truth of the matter is that there is no going back in any case. There is no way I could ever revert to living in male mode there is just so much more to life as a girl!!!!!! (besides which my replacement credit card turned up yesterday with my new name on it - I have arrived!!).

Thank you

Miranda

Don't for a moment think girls don't struggle with the exact same thing, Miranda. Pay any attention to them, and you will see it is a major contributor to their mental processes, by and large. Guys have this problem too, they just deal with it differently and of course tend to have a different ideal that they strive towards.

(03-06-2015, 12:01 PM)sfem Wrote: [ -> ]Don't for a moment think girls don't struggle with the exact same thing, Miranda. Pay any attention to them, and you will see it is a major contributor to their mental processes, by and large. Guys have this problem too, they just deal with it differently and of course tend to have a different ideal that they strive towards.

This is a little bit different though. For cis females who have grown up looking over their shoulders at celeb glamour models, each one has, to some extent, recognised their place in the appearance pecking order - they may not like their place and be doing all they can to change it, but they inherently know where they currently are.

For us though, well for me anyway, we are coming into this cold without an awareness of where we are going to fit (future) in the appearance hierarchy I had never really considered how I might present appearancewise before this feature raised the issue in my mind; up to now, I have been just ploughing on through the transition process without any issues at all and hadn't really considered the final appearance outcome.

So, on being presented with examples which are just unbelievably stunning and successful, I am now reflecting on how I will be seen in the future and this has bought me up with a real jolt, Once this is all done and dusted, I really don't want to be taken as anything other than a cis female - I most certainly don't want to be seen as a man in a dress and rail against the idea of being easily spotted as a ex male in any shape or form.

However, I am having to come to terms with the fact that these ultimate goals might be out of reach and that is a hard one to deal with.

There is no way this would deter me from the path I am on, nor would it have prevented me from starting out on the journey, had I thought about it earlier - it is more about managing expectations and realising the practical limitations of the process we are undertaking.


Miranda

Girls tend to go overboard on the down side!! They could be drop dead gorgeous and sexy as all hell with guys drooling and stumbling all over themselves just to be close to them if not to be lucky enough to be their boyfriends, but as far as they're concerned, they're GROSSLY fat and ugly!!

This one girl, when I first met her, was about 13, skinny as a stick and quite pretty and used to lock herself in her room and start slicing up her arms with a sharp knife if someone even THOUGHT something badly of her!! About 6 years later, we got a bass player that was dating her and we rehearsed at their house. She was still skinny as a stick!! If she turned sideways, you wouldn't be able to see her!! She was still very pretty, too!! She's the niece of a famous local movie director. One night at rehearsal, I had to go into their fridge for something and in the back on the inside of it, she had this large plastic pig head stuck to the back and, when the door was opened, the pig would start grunting and squealing!! I asked her what that was all about, she said it was because she was too fat and the pig was there to remind her that she was a big hog and shouldn't eat anything lest she be even fatter!!

In college, a few years before that, I had this friend, Jennifer, that EVERY guy on campus was madly in love with and she was sexy as all hell and incredibly sweet and gorgeous!! Okay, she DID have a trace of puppy fat on her, but only made her even more sexy!!!! It was like being in school with Marilyn Monroe and Debby Harry and maybe Barbara Eden at the same time!!
This is her.
[attachment=9695]
That was back in the mid `80's a few weeks after she turned 18. I have a few pictures of her from about 2 years ago and, although she's got a few more pounds on her, she still looks stunning, but I can't find them at the moment.
Well, as far as she was concerned (back then) she was fat and ugly and nobody wanted her!! She could have her pick of ANYBODY she wanted!! Guys would argue about who was going to be her next boyfriend if she ever broke up with Mark!!

(04-06-2015, 08:59 AM)Miranda-nata-est Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-06-2015, 12:01 PM)sfem Wrote: [ -> ]Don't for a moment think girls don't struggle with the exact same thing, Miranda. Pay any attention to them, and you will see it is a major contributor to their mental processes, by and large. Guys have this problem too, they just deal with it differently and of course tend to have a different ideal that they strive towards.

This is a little bit different though. For cis females who have grown up looking over their shoulders at celeb glamour models, each one has, to some extent, recognised their place in the appearance pecking order - they may not like their place and be doing all they can to change it, but they inherently know where they currently are.

For us though, well for me anyway, we are coming into this cold without an awareness of where we are going to fit (future) in the appearance hierarchy I had never really considered how I might present appearancewise before this feature raised the issue in my mind; up to now, I have been just ploughing on through the transition process without any issues at all and hadn't really considered the final appearance outcome.

So, on being presented with examples which are just unbelievably stunning and successful, I am now reflecting on how I will be seen in the future and this has bought me up with a real jolt, Once this is all done and dusted, I really don't want to be taken as anything other than a cis female - I most certainly don't want to be seen as a man in a dress and rail against the idea of being easily spotted as a ex male in any shape or form.

However, I am having to come to terms with the fact that these ultimate goals might be out of reach and that is a hard one to deal with.

There is no way this would deter me from the path I am on, nor would it have prevented me from starting out on the journey, had I thought about it earlier - it is more about managing expectations and realising the practical limitations of the process we are undertaking.


Miranda

Miranda I can relate to what your going through, part of it I think is just normal for a woman but part of it only another trans person could ever understand....

I feel like I can "pass" for cis female now very well but that wasn't always the case... Thing is I had NO idea where Id ultimately end up when I decided I HAD to do this... I just told myself Im gonna love and accept myself no matter what or where Im at and I try to remind myself on bad days that in the past I was somehow very happy to just be ME...

I can be feeling like Im going nowhere or even backwards and I find it helps to think back to my very early days into this or even look at older pictures or read something I wrote and realize things ARE better now and even on my best days I know I will look back someday in an even better place but STILL not happy with my looks....

Thing is I find the farther things go the more I want... Its always been that way but even high $$$ surgerys haven't made that change much at all and maybe even made it worse.... I mean Im not sure I will ever get to a place where Im totally happy and comfortable with myself...

14 months now on HRT, I can see more and more a woman in the mirror but not all the time... BUT there was a time I had to spend like 3 hours with clothes, make up ect just to see a glimpse of her and NEVER without clothes on... Now I do sometimes and hopefully in time that will just keep getting better....

I had voice feminization surgery yet somehow before that even though I hated my voice I still was happier than Id ever been living as a man... In fact amazing things started happening for me even at only like 4 months on HRT... My voice was terrible and I look at those old pics and I remember how happy I was despite all that... Now 7 months into recovery from the VFS I can easily be read as female on the phone.... People tell me it sounds great but I STILL aint happy with it especially when Im with sexy squeaky younger women... Yet Ill bring it up with my GF and she looks at me like Im nuts... I DO worry about that less and less though... It is what it is and it works well enough for me even if it isn't the perfect sexy feminine voice....

Oh and then there's the big one for me so far, my FFS.... I wont lie, this has made a HUGE difference for me and Im still only 3 1/2 months into recovery and still seeing subtle improvements AND unfortunately disappointments... I'll have people stare at me right in the face and I can tell they are trying to read me likely due to my voice or manners slipping a bit or maybe they just saw by body as less than feminine.... I can just confidently smile and work the voice and manners and literally watch them relax and "pass" me .) Again though if Im feeling down about some wrinkle I can still see all I have to do is go back and look at an old pic from before and remember how I felt about myself then... How much I hated the old masculine features and the REALLY bad wrinkles... Yet somehow even then I was for the most part happy with myself .)

Same with the seemingly never ending facial hair removal... After 6 alexandrite laser sessions and nearly 200 hours of blend electro I STILL have to shave and it sucks ;( BUT If I think back I realize Ive made HUGE progress there... Just gotta remember when I used to have really shave and goop on the heavy make up... Now I regularly just go with some eyeliner and mascara and some lip stain/gloss and I can go 2 days without a shave for electro and have zero worries at all unless I have a date... Someday I will be done.....

Oh and speaking of dates, well the quality of men I date just keeps getting better as well and while I still haven't found the one and I still get disappointed bummed out with the realities of being a pre op woman... I just gotta think back to some of the the guys Ive "dated" to realize that while not perfect things ARE much better now and Im becoming confident that will just keep getting better and better and I just don't have to deal with a lot of the crap I used to...

Im hoping for a successful SRS result eventually and Im sure I will look back after that and my relationship problems will look a whole lot better then than they do now!!! Thing is I just started a new job as a rural carrier or The Mail Lady with the USPS and Im now looking at waiting up to a year or more before Im gonna be able to get 6-8 weeks off to recover from SRS without losing this job ;(

But wait, what??? Yea I have a decent job as a woman!!! Whoa thats something I only dreamed of not very long ago .) There was a time I envisioned just working and dealing with a bunch of crap as an OUT trans woman and Id have taken ANY job I could get and just dealing with it and I envisioned myself being very happy with that... Now I can't be 100% sure Im not read as trans but I can tell you Id NEVER admit that to anyone at work if it came up... BUT it hasn't and I don't think it will aside from when I tell HR/medical I need the forms for FMLA leave and have my docs confirm "medical necessity"... But my medical/HR file is sealed and my bosses won't know from me anyway why Im taking leave...

Im sure in the future I will be able to pull off true stealth even with a man if I want to and I will be able to look back to now for reassurance that things are going fine when I have a bad day .)

Even in a few years after a hopefully excellent result from SRS and more feminization from the HRT and likely a very good life as a woman Im sure I wont be 100% happy with things and STILL dealing with trans issues... I do know I will be happy though because from the beginning my worst day as a woman has been better than best as a man =)

Fuck and by then Ill be pushing 50 and getting OLD for real and dealing with all the unpleasantries that will bring.... BUT there was a time not long ago I was considering just ending it all, now I want to live and looking at inevitable old age that way helps .)

I guess my best advice is just try to be happy despite any flaws you perceive and just be YOU and while very hard I know, try not to compare yourself to cis women or other trans women.... Compare yourself to the old you and measure your progress in comparison to where you came from .)

I love your post, Eva.

Seconded! Sticky worthy as I believe many of us could benefit from reading that. Thank you.