Breast Growth For Genetic Males

(27-04-2015, 07:55 PM)jannet.duff Wrote: [ -> ]Trust Bryony to go for the jugular . I would not often agree with him, but this is one of those times I must. ...

Thanks Janet.... I think...(is that "damning with faint praise"?)

B.

Sounds like you MIGHT want to try one of these two alternate options. At least this way you CAN be a girl ONLY when you want to.

https://www.myrealbreast.com/main/produc...asts-pair/

http://femskin.com/femskin.htm

Bryony,

I have a very mixed opinion towards your stance. I suspect my personal behavioral code agrees with yours more than differs. However, I also very much believe in people's freedom to do whatever they want with their life so long as they're not infringing on the freedoms of others.

I'm intrigued by your comparison of GD with anorexics. I agree with you about the dangers of anorexics furthering their self-destructive behavior. However, what if the anorexic goes into denial that she has a problem to appease her spouse and family? She tries to maintain a facade of being healthy and normal, but this only drives her maladaptive tendencies further and further as she believes she is truly alone and nobody can help her or even understand her? Promoting anorexia is dangerous no doubt; but so is being in denial about it as well, just as can be with GD.

Is leaving one's spouse on a whim or unexpectedly a bad decision? Yes, I would say so. However, I couldn't say how much better or worse it is to live a lie to keep up the pretenses and to not offend the wife's feelings. I'm sincerely curious here, would you have the same perspective if the situation was reversed? Would you condemn the wife for getting married without disclosing her gender dysphoria?

I don't put women on a pedestal. I think individuals should be judged by their character, not by their gender. Women can be abusive, egocentric and toxic just like men can be. I don't think a man leaving his wife is misogyny, anymore than a woman leaving her husband is misandry.

Well said, Flame. As usual.

I really tried to stay out of this, yet here I am adding my two cents again. While I understand your point of view Bryony, I feel you lack a bit of tactfulness. While there is a time and place to be brutally honest I feel that without knowing the other party there's the risk of driving that person over the edge.

Bryony, not one of us is perfect. How can you expect to find any fault in that which you idolize and set upon a pedestal? Men and women are capable evil and maliciousness. I've seen it first hand. Explain to me the women who sleep around to satisfy their sexual desires even though they are married with kids? We always hear about unfaithful men because well quite frankly men can be stupid and sloppy. While women can be more conniving, and discrete. Believe me, as I stated, I know and seen it first hand. But it is not fair for me to say all women are evil, manipulative backstabbers, nor would it be fair for me to say all men are just misunderstood. Male, female, we're all capable of major wrong doing as well as compassionate feats.

Whether we like it or not our words carry power. They can soothe and heal or crush and destroy. I doubt anyone would feel good about themselves if they found out they were somewhat responsible for a bleak turn of events.

So maybe instead of condemning someone for something that may be beyond their control, perhaps we can offer some viable advice, or seek further information that can maybe lead to better possible solutions.

For example, PM could possibly ease the authors mental state. If so then perhaps he would be able to discuss it with his wife and see how she feels. Then maybe they can find some viable solutions together. Now if the desires and confusion still persist or are stronger, then there may be something deeper. Again discussions with his wife would need to take place, perhaps some form of counseling too. Hopefully a viable solution can be found. Who knows, maybe after discussing things with the Mrs. maybe she is open to being domineering, and up for some role playing. Then again, maybe not.

Now out of curiosity Freya, did you have your desires prior to getting married? If so then it should have been discussed with your partner to be. If not, is there anything in particular that brought about these urges? When you cheated was it with another female, or a male? Again just curiosity, feel free to answer some or none.

(29-04-2015, 03:57 AM)flamesabers Wrote: [ -> ]Bryony,

I have a very mixed opinion towards your stance. I suspect my personal behavioral code agrees with yours more than differs. However, I also very much believe in people's freedom to do whatever they want with their life so long as they're not infringing on the freedoms of others.

Do you not also believe in taking responsibility for the consequences of your actions?

Action 1: deliberately withholding your sexuality from someone you desire in order to get them to fall in love with you marry you.

Consequence 1: the loving wife feels betrayed when she finds out that she married "someone else" and her marriage has been a lie.

Action 2: producing children with said wife. The natural instinct of a parent is to protect, nurture and defend to the death a child - particularly someone with the instincts of a women. Leaving the mother and child to fend for themselves even if guilt money is paid still leaves them far short of their natural expectation.

Consequence 2: the child has no father role model, and is less likely to develop a stable relationship in later life, more likely to become involved in drugs, underachieve etc. (More likely, not definitely)

Action 3: indulging in extra-marital relationships with men.
Consequence 3: a definite possibility of passing on STDs, perhaps AIDs.

Do you think these counts as "not infringing on the freedoms of others" and is therefore perfectly OK? If so it's Venus and Mars folks.

Quote:I'm intrigued by your comparison of GD with anorexics. I agree with you about the dangers of anorexics furthering their self-destructive behavior. However, what if the anorexic goes into denial that she has a problem to appease her spouse and family? She tries to maintain a facade of being healthy and normal, but this only drives her maladaptive tendencies further and further as she believes she is truly alone and nobody can help her or even understand her? Promoting anorexia is dangerous no doubt; but so is being in denial about it as well, just as can be with GD.

I think this is very much a strawman fallacy, because the analogy is nothing like what I am referring to. Of course, he should accept that he has gender dysphoria, but the solution, as Fire & Ice suggests later, is to get help, not write off his marriage, his two kids and a stable job.

"I am currently married but will be filling for divorce if decided to go this route."

Jesus!

Quote:Is leaving one's spouse on a whim or unexpectedly a bad decision? Yes, I would say so. However, I couldn't say how much better or worse it is to live a lie to keep up the pretenses and to not offend the wife's feelings.

These aren't the only choices. We can discuss more sensible options if you like, though I suspect you are using extreme examples for Socratic debate.

Quote:I'm sincerely curious here, would you have the same perspective if the situation was reversed? Would you condemn the wife for getting married without disclosing her gender dysphoria?

Yes, of course I would. I'm sure I've said so before.

Quote:I don't put women on a pedestal. I think individuals should be judged by their character, not by their gender. Women can be abusive, egocentric and toxic just like men can be. I don't think a man leaving his wife is misogyny, anymore than a woman leaving her husband is misandry.

That was, I admit, a bit of hyperbole, but I think it is fair to say that women are more likely to throw their men out for unfaithfulness, particularly if they have kids than the classic (nowadays) "I'm not getting enough out of this marriage"

Yes, absolutely individuals should be judged by their character, not by their gender. However, the poisonous nature of testosterone and limitations of the orgasm that it produces are such that IMO and for a given upbringing and culture, men are more tempted to be unfaithful, lying b*stards than women.

(Off-topic for this thread, but I want to write something elsewhere regarding thoughts that I've had about the very different nature of male/female libido w.r.t. climax, and the reason, therefore, that the stereotypical male behaves as he does.)

By the way, its nice that you and I can disagree with each other without insulting one another. Refreshing!

B.

Hi, FI

(29-04-2015, 06:38 AM)Fire And Ice Wrote: [ -> ]I really tried to stay out of this, yet here I am adding my two cents again. While I understand your point of view Bryony, I feel you lack a bit of tactfulness. While there is a time and place to be brutally honest I feel that without knowing the other party there's the risk of driving that person over the edge.

I do try to be tactful most of the time, FI. Some things do get my dander up though.

Generally when people talk about "leaving to find themselves" there has been considerable discussion with their wives and irretrievable breakdown. There is no indication in the first couple of posts that any attempt has been made to do this.

This guy is not homosexual - he proposed to a girl, got married and had 2 kids, so he is bisexual. He has some kind of gender dysphoria and seems to want the best of both worlds including being unfaithful to his wife. He casually throws out that
"I am currently married but will be filling for divorce if decided to go this route."

Now there may be lots more information, but if you want to talk about tactfulness, maybe the OP needs a very large dose himself. A stable job, 2 kids, presumably he cares for them somewhat because of presenting as a male when they are around, but he wants to throw it all away to become a "bottom". In other words, heterosexual sex has become a bore and he wants sexual gratification - exactly the wrong reason to take any kind of Estrogen.

This generation seems to be permanently entitled to do any kind of outrageous thing without criticism. All stigma have been cancelled and I don't think that's necessarily a good thing.

I may be tactless, but, hopefully, speaking a few home truths just might spark some shame and a feeling of how the other person feels.

Quote:Bryony, not one of us is perfect. How can you expect to find any fault in that which you idolize and set upon a pedestal?

I'm not blind, FI - I may indulge in hyperbole, but I am well aware of the many faults of some women. I'm not that keen on prostitutes, as it happens.

Quote:Men and women are capable evil and maliciousness. I've seen it first hand. Explain to me the women who sleep around to satisfy their sexual desires even though they are married with kids? We always hear about unfaithful men because well quite frankly men can be stupid and sloppy. While women can be more conniving, and discrete. Believe me, as I stated, I know and seen it first hand. But it is not fair for me to say all women are evil, manipulative backstabbers, nor would it be fair for me to say all men are just misunderstood. Male, female, we're all capable of major wrong doing as well as compassionate feats.

Yep, but this is the "fallacy of relative privation" or "whataboutery". In this instance, the only fault that the woman has been declared to have committed is being hurt at being lied to.

Quote:Whether we like it or not our words carry power. They can soothe and heal or crush and destroy. I doubt anyone would feel good about themselves if they found out they were somewhat responsible for a bleak turn of events.

I think this guy is aware, and he's deciding to throw it all away. I'm hoping to shame him into reconsidering.

Quote:So maybe instead of condemning someone for something that may be beyond their control, perhaps we can offer some viable advice, or seek further information that can maybe lead to better possible solutions.

For example, PM could possibly ease the authors mental state. If so then perhaps he would be able to discuss it with his wife and see how she feels. Then maybe they can find some viable solutions together. Now if the desires and confusion still persist or are stronger, then there may be something deeper. Again discussions with his wife would need to take place, perhaps some form of counseling too. Hopefully a viable solution can be found. Who knows, maybe after discussing things with the Mrs. maybe she is open to being domineering, and up for some role playing. Then again, maybe not.

Good points FI. I'm bad cop, you be good cop!

B.

(29-04-2015, 08:05 PM)bryony Wrote: [ -> ]

(29-04-2015, 03:57 AM)flamesabers Wrote: [ -> ]Bryony,

I have a very mixed opinion towards your stance. I suspect my personal behavioral code agrees with yours more than differs. However, I also very much believe in people's freedom to do whatever they want with their life so long as they're not infringing on the freedoms of others.

Do you not also believe in taking responsibility for the consequences of your actions?

Action 1: deliberately withholding your sexuality from someone you desire in order to get them to fall in love with you marry you.

Consequence 1: the loving wife feels betrayed when she finds out that she married "someone else" and her marriage has been a lie.

Action 2: producing children with said wife. The natural instinct of a parent is to protect, nurture and defend to the death a child - particularly someone with the instincts of a women. Leaving the mother and child to fend for themselves even if guilt money is paid still leaves them far short of their natural expectation.

Consequence 2: the child has no father role model, and is less likely to develop a stable relationship in later life, more likely to become involved in drugs, underachieve etc. (More likely, not definitely)

Action 3: indulging in extra-marital relationships with men.
Consequence 3: a definite possibility of passing on STDs, perhaps AIDs.

Do you think these counts as "not infringing on the freedoms of others" and is therefore perfectly OK? If so it's Venus and Mars folks.

I feel I'm a bit biased with answering your questions considering I'm personally opposed to the notion of contractual relationships or having offspring. With that said, I think the husband (or wife if applicable) has a greater obligation to his children than to his spouse. The reason I say this is children have no say in what family they are born into, and children lack the independence and experience adults have. Excluding extreme or unusual circumstances, adults choose whether to reproduce. Parents should be held responsible to raising their children to the age of 18, or at the very least, ensuring their children are cared for via child support or foster home.

As far as the husband's obligation to honor his marriage, that's a bit of a loaded question for me. Frankly, the concept of a contractual relationship strikes me as bizarre. I attached a Calvin & Hobbes comic strip that I think illustrates as much. Nobody has contractual relationships with their friends or biological family members, so why are romantic relationships different in this regard? I see contracts as a tool of business, or in some cases, such as the military, a means to ensure soldiers report for duty when a war is raging. Marriages though aren't about earning profits or fighting wars. Outside of tradition, the only reason I see for keeping marriage around is to enforce/encourage couples to stay together for the sake of an individual of the couple or for the children. Being forced to stay in a personal relationship with another adult you no longer want to be involved with sounds like a violation of freedom to me. In my opinion, a couple that cohabitates and willingly stays together is far more commendable than a relationship that relies on a contract to persist. If a contract was never necessary for a relationship to prosper, why get married in the first place?

If an individual breaks a contract, typically the person must compensate the party accordingly. This makes sense because the other party entered into the contract to make a profit. This is practical I think when contracts deals with currencies such as money or material resources. However, in a marriage the currency I think is love. Unlike money, genuine love and devotion cannot be coerced from someone. As soon as one person is deeply unsatisfied with the marriage or some other major problem comes up, the contract is voided to an extent. The question that remains is whether the couple will officially dissolve the contract or not.

On a positive ending note, congratulations on hitting the 1,000 posts mark.

(29-04-2015, 08:22 PM)bryony Wrote: [ -> ]This guy is not homosexual - he proposed to a girl, got married and had 2 kids, so he is bisexual. He has some kind of gender dysphoria and seems to want the best of both worlds including being unfaithful to his wife. He casually throws out that
"I am currently married but will be filling for divorce if decided to go this route."

This is also the outline I took into the post. It possible that this is not what the poster actually means, but is seems that way from reading the post.

Its almost like I'm bored in my marriage, the spark is gone. Rather than try and see if I can fix our problems, as a bisexual I'm going to try and be a bottom with a new partner. ( A straight person would just go for another female ) The GD almost seems like a side issue.

I can understand somebody trying to put their mild GD issues behind them. Trying to ignore the issue until they no longer can. I cannot understand somebody who plays around with other partners outside their marriage.

(29-04-2015, 08:22 PM)bryony Wrote: [ -> ]I may be tactless, but, hopefully, speaking a few home truths just might spark some shame and a feeling of how the other person feels.

And shame is always so helpful. Its such a positive emotion, after all. (rolling eyes here.)