I subscribe to the view that there are four mutually exclusive or independent components to one's gender:
A. Genetic or biological sex (male, female, intersex)
B. Subconscious sex (male, female, gender-variant)
C. Sexual attraction (gynephilic, androphilic, asexual, bi-sexual)
D. Gender role (man, woman, ambiguous)
So, for example, I'm a male, gender-variant, gynephilic, man.
It's component B which causes me problems. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here.
CK
CK,
Is part D referring to which gender you present yourself as?
For me I would say I'm
A. Male
B. Gender-variant
C. Borderline between gynephilic/asexual
D. Need clarification
CK -
Male, gender variant, gynephilic, 60/40(?)
On the last, I think I need clarification as well. At least in one sense, my gender role is not ambiguous, as it tends to be one way or the other but not somewhere in between. In other words, it tends to be one gender for a time, and then may change to the other gender for a while.
spanky
(28-12-2013, 02:43 AM)flamesabers Wrote: [ -> ]Is part D referring to which gender you present yourself as?
Yes
(28-12-2013, 11:27 AM)spanky Wrote: [ -> ]On the last, I think I need clarification as well.
Sorry, my fault. I should have called it "gender expression" which is how we present our selves to the world in terms of expression, behaviors, interests, affinities, etc. It's also how the world sees us, and/or how we want the world to see us -- male, female, or a combination.
My gender expression is that of a man. I don't think I've ever been mistaken for a woman. e.g., a store clerk calling me "Ma'am". I make no attempt to present as female in public. At home I'm experimenting with doing so (but with varying success).
CK
(28-12-2013, 03:51 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ] (28-12-2013, 02:43 AM)flamesabers Wrote: [ -> ]Is part D referring to which gender you present yourself as?
Yes
(28-12-2013, 11:27 AM)spanky Wrote: [ -> ]On the last, I think I need clarification as well.
Sorry, my fault. I should have called it "gender expression" which is how we present our selves to the world in terms of expression, behaviors, interests, affinities, etc. It's also how the world sees us, and/or how we want the world to see us -- male, female, or a combination.
My gender expression is that of a man. I don't think I've ever been mistaken for a woman. e.g., a store clerk calling me "Ma'am". I make no attempt to present a female in public. I home I'm experimenting with doing so (but with varying success).
CK
Ideally I would say ambiguous for part D. Unfortunately, I would say the vast majority of the public sees me as a male, albeit an eccentric male at times.
(28-12-2013, 03:51 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]My gender expression is that of a man. I don't think I've ever been mistaken for a woman. e.g., a store clerk calling me "Ma'am". I make no attempt to present a female in public. I home I'm experimenting with doing so (but with varying success).
CK
It's not how often you get Ma'amed, its how much you enjoy it.
lol
Anyways, just for the hell of it....
A. Genetic or biological sex (male, female, intersex) Male
B. Subconscious sex (male, female, gender-variant) Not sure what this means...like in dreams or???
C. Sexual attraction (gynephilic, androphilic, asexual, bi-sexual) I don't even know anymore, there was so much envy wrapped up with the lust for women, and the lust is pretty much gone now. I dislike the way most men act. Asexual for now, I guess.
D. Gender role (man, woman, ambiguous)- Hmm, a few months ago I would've said ambiguous, but I've been getting bolder lately. I usually wear light makeup and andro/girl clothes. Maybe 70-30 female on my part. The 30 is outta my control, just mannerisms and voice....trying to get this number lower. I really like it when I'm gendered as female by someone, so maybe that's the answer?
I don't even know this is all way to subjective lol..
A. Intersex (assigned Male)
B. Variant/ 50-50
C. gynephilic/asexual
D. Male/Ambiguous 70/30 is'h perhaps different, not entirely sure.
(29-12-2013, 04:55 AM)SarahSchilling Wrote: [ -> ]I don't even know this is all way to subjective lol..
Ah, yes, and that's precisely the point, Sarah, it's all so subjective. But, society wants us all to conform to a binary gender model where everyone is assigned gender at birth, male or a female, along with all the associated attributes, behaviors, and expectations prescribed by the culture we live in.
But the binary gender model is a lie, because the permutations and combinations of these four independent aspects of our sexual nature produce a kaleidoscope of individual sexual identities and expressions that span the population. Those of us that don't fit neatly into one or the other box struggle for acknowledgement and acceptance of our exceptionalism, and find it's like trying to climb out of a deep hole dug in dry sand.
So, my question is: Will the day ever come when people are permitted to project the natural diversity of gender inclination without penalty or prejudice?
In the mean time, how do people, like so many of us, caught in the middle, overcome the stigma of our sex/gender incongruence when we are so marginalized within society?
Is this forum and other internet venues instruments toward that end?
CK
(27-12-2013, 05:02 PM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]A. Genetic or biological sex (male, female, intersex)
B. Subconscious sex (male, female, gender-variant)
C. Sexual attraction (gynephilic, androphilic, asexual, bi-sexual)
D. Gender role (man, woman, ambiguous)
For me...
A. Genetic male
B. 75% female, 25% male
C. I suppose gynephilic but it gets fuzzy for me right here. I'm really attracted to love. I suppose I have a severe love deficit, so whoever meets that need in my life is someone I'm attracted to. I've felt it the strongest coming from females but if I felt it from a male (which rarely happens) I can imagine I might be attracted to that person also.
D. For whatever reason, I assume the role that's expected of me. I prefer to be in the female role if I can but most of the time I find myself in the male role.
(29-12-2013, 06:36 AM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]...But, society wants us all to conform to a binary gender model where everyone is assigned gender at birth, male or a female, along with all the associated attributes, behaviors, and expectations prescribed by the culture we live in.
But the binary gender model is a lie, because the permutations and combinations of these four independent aspects of our sexual nature produce a kaleidoscope of individual sexual identities and expressions that span the population. Those of us that don't fit neatly into one or the other box struggle for acknowledgement and acceptance of our exceptionalism, and find it's like trying to climb out of a deep hole dug in dry sand.
I couldn't agree more CK. This resonates with me 100%
(29-12-2013, 06:36 AM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]So, my question is: Will the day ever come when people are permitted to project the natural diversity of gender inclination without penalty or prejudice?
I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime.
(29-12-2013, 06:36 AM)ClaraKay Wrote: [ -> ]In the mean time, how do people, like so many of us, caught in the middle, overcome the stigma of our sex/gender incongruence when we are so marginalized within society?
Is this forum and other internet venues instruments toward that end?
That is a daunting task! I don't think this forum reached anyone who needs to be enlightened about our plight. Instead, this forum is a safe haven for those of us who struggle to find acceptance and encouragement to face the world.
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(29-12-2013, 04:55 AM)SarahSchilling Wrote: [ -> ]...but I've been getting bolder lately. I usually wear light makeup and andro/girl clothes. Maybe 70-30 female on my part. The 30 is outta my control, just mannerisms and voice....trying to get this number lower. I really like it when I'm gendered as female by someone, so maybe that's the answer?
I feel like I'm getting "bolder" as well. Or perhaps just not willing to hold back as I've done in the past. I bought some charcoal eyeliner and it's so subtle I think I could wear it and get that, "I think there's something different about you Doodlebug but I just can't pinpoint what it is" response.
I've also been scouring stores and the internet to find clothing that I like in the androgynous / unisex /feminine category but I just can't find anything that appeals to me unless it's overtly feminine. Any suggestions?