Breast Growth For Genetic Males

i've just started taking fenugreek and wild yam after reading lots of articles online about the subject. they seem to be two of the most commonly recommended herbs although i'll be grateful for any recommendations to add to the mix. i have one question though. i've seen the comment about effects being irreversible after six months crop up a few times. what does that actually mean? does it mean that growth can go back down before that period if you don't keep up your regime or does it mean that they'll keep growing after a certain period of time whether you keep up with the pills or not? have you by then kicked in some kind of hormonal change that means breasts will keep growing a bit like they would during puberty? i'm wondering if you managed to get to a certain cup size and stopped taking the pills is there a danger they could keep growing?

whoops. i think i should have put this in the biological males section. any chance of someone moving it? sorry

(07-10-2012, 02:02 PM)sarahlouise41 Wrote: [ -> ]i've just started taking fenugreek and wild yam after reading lots of articles online about the subject. they seem to be two of the most commonly recommended herbs although i'll be grateful for any recommendations to add to the mix. i have one question though. i've seen the comment about effects being irreversible after six months crop up a few times. what does that actually mean? does it mean that growth can go back down before that period if you don't keep up your regime or does it mean that they'll keep growing after a certain period of time whether you keep up with the pills or not? have you by then kicked in some kind of hormonal change that means breasts will keep growing a bit like they would during puberty? i'm wondering if you managed to get to a certain cup size and stopped taking the pills is there a danger they could keep growing?

First. Wild Yam is hardly recommended at all anymore, it used to be a lot, until people started realizing that the body can't actually make any use of diosgenin. It has to be made into hormones in a lab.

Fenugreek is still used, but you'll absolutely HAVE to do something about testosterone as well for it to even begin to have any reasonable effect at all. You should also probably use a "truer" phytoestrogen such as red clover or hops along with it.

The most common fenugreek based plan is also known as the greenbush plan, and it's fenugreek, red clover, maca, and saw palmetto. I think? Someone else correct me if I've got that wrong.

Exact doses depend on the person and exactly how far you're wanting to go. I think most males will generally want to use a standardized extract for saw palmetto and take about 640mg per day OR 1280mg per day, depending on how far they want to go. Less is possible depending on the amount of DHT you are producing which generally depends on age, but more than needed shouldn't hurt anything other than your bank statement either. Unless you don't want to go full on transition, then even slightly over can be problematic.

Fenugreek and red clover/hops would be the phytoestrogens in your plan. Fenugreek is less a phytoestrogen and more a phytoestrogenic. In other words, it provides a boost, but isn't enough to do much on its own. But combined with another phytoestrogen, it can boost it's effect.

Maca is an adaptogen whose effects would be better explained by someone other than me, I'm not completely clear on what it does.

All that aside... The first question we need to ask is: how far do you want to go? Are you just a guy wanting some boob, but otherwise still consider yourself a guy? Or are you wanting to fully transition to female?

If the latter, I greatly doubt that anything other than at minimum, saw palmetto and pueraria mirifica can get you there. And I'd honestly suggest something more closely resembling my plan, though dosing would need to be adjusted and some of the "extras" might not be necessary in your case. I started out with very excessive T, so I needed extra blocking. I also have a high bp and heart rate, so I needed stuff for that. And I'm on a very very lean diet, so I needed a few extra vitamins and minerals.

(07-10-2012, 05:30 PM)sarahlouise41 Wrote: [ -> ]whoops. i think i should have put this in the biological males section. any chance of someone moving it? sorry

Best thing to do would be delete it ( via the "Full edit" option - the delete button then comes up at top left) and re-post.

As for effects being irreversible yadda yadda...

Basically, IF you successfully start growing breasts and inhibit your male hormones completely, after about 6 months it starts to become much less likely that you will be able to ever return to being a fully functioning male.

That's part of why dosing is important. If you want to remain a functioning male but also grow boob, you're going to want much less of the herbs and to take things much much much MUCH slower than if you want to go full out.

I don't think a greenbush plan could get you to the point of sterility, but it's possible.

A PM and SP plan will definitely make you sterile.

(07-10-2012, 02:02 PM)sarahlouise41 Wrote: [ -> ]i have one question though. i've seen the comment about effects being irreversible after six months crop up a few times. what does that actually mean? does it mean that growth can go back down before that period if you don't keep up your regime or does it mean that they'll keep growing after a certain period of time whether you keep up with the pills or not? have you by then kicked in some kind of hormonal change that means breasts will keep growing a bit like they would during puberty? i'm wondering if you managed to get to a certain cup size and stopped taking the pills is there a danger they could keep growing?

What that means is, that it takes anything up to about 3-4 months on average for true breast tissue growth to start and then another couple of months at least before it becomes noticeable to anyone else. So up to that point if you stop taking everything, you'll probably get away with people just thinking you have moobs.
Breast are largely composed of fat and some ducts and lobules which will go flat if not kept enlarged by the female hormones, but there is also 'real' tissue which once formed will NOT disappear and this is what starts to become noticeable at around the 6 months stage.

(07-10-2012, 05:57 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote: [ -> ]Fenugreek is still used, but you'll absolutely HAVE to do something about testosterone as well for it to even begin to have any reasonable effect at all. You should also probably use a "truer" phytoestrogen such as red clover or hops along with it.

FG does have some side effects for some people at least, which seem to be a vaso-dilation effect, and also tends to lower blood sugar via an effect on insulin, so I think you do need to be a bit careful with it.

(07-10-2012, 05:57 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote: [ -> ]Maca is an adaptogen whose effects would be better explained by someone other than me, I'm not completely clear on what it does.

I don't think anyone else does really does for sure, either! There are a lot of claims made for it and some people swear it's the best thing since sliced bread, but most of the claims seem to centre around increased fat deposition in the nether regions!

thanx for all the detailed and informative replies. to answer one of the questions, at the moment i'm interested in growing boobs will still retaining function down below. a couple of other questions spring to mind after reading the posts so far. does the regime have to be followed after significant growth has started or is there a point where you have set your body on a certain course and growth will continue whether you take your pills or not? could you, for example, stop taking the pills when you're a certain size but the breasts keep developing to a bigger size than you intended? also is there a natural limit to growth? i would guess that everyone has a different physical so some people might only achieve a certain size no matter what they take?

(07-10-2012, 05:57 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote: [ -> ]The most common fenugreek based plan is also known as the greenbush plan, and it's fenugreek, red clover, maca, and saw palmetto. I think? Someone else correct me if I've got that wrong.

Exact doses depend on the person and exactly how far you're wanting to go. I think most males will generally want to use a standardized extract for saw palmetto and take about 640mg per day OR 1280mg per day, depending on how far they want to go.

if you're taking fenugreek, red clover, sal palmetto and maca can you take the maximum dose on the bottle or should you take less because of the effects of the other herbs you're taking?

It is uncertain if there is ever a true definite limit to growth. Some evidence exists that there is, but there is also evidence that there actually really isn't, and simply upping your hormone levels continuously will provide continuous growth.

The regime basically has to be followed for as long as growth is desired and then a lower dose is necessary to maintain. It is possible that growth may continue for a short time after ceasing to take anything, but it won't last long, and then you'll actually start to lose some of your gains unless you are on a maintenance dose.

If you want to grow but maintain function, you will want a lower dose of SP, or maybe even exclude it altogether depending on your existing T levels.

The only estrogen that has been discussed that could render you infertile is PM, but it is possible to use it without losing function on a properly balanced dose.

Pansy is correct that there are other side effects to all these herbs other than the ones intended, so you do need to watch out for those and adjust accordingly, as well as adjusting according to the degree of feminization that is desired.

are the breasts that men can grow actually feminine ones or are they man-boobish?