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Hops as possible alternative to PM

#1

Hi All,
   Re me and PM:  I could not use PM for more than about three weeks.   I'd get bad nausea, stomach cramps, lethargy/no energy, and other problems to where it was not worth proceeding.   Due to this I would quit taking PM, and lose any beginnings of things that were happening.   I tried three times with PM, with the last time ramping up very slowly, and I still had the same adverse side effects with PM.  Maybe its a food/herb allergy, I don't know.

   About two months ago I decided to try Hops extract.  I cannot attest to its strength vs PM, but it did not give me the above noted bad side effects, just the positive desired effects of breast growth, and calming.

   Just putting this out there for others that may have had, or are having problems with PM, or who may want to try something different.

     Paul
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#2

(20-08-2017, 03:02 PM)paul Wrote:  Hi All,
   Re me and PM:  I could not use PM for more than about three weeks.   I'd get bad nausea, stomach cramps, lethargy/no energy, and other problems to where it was not worth proceeding.   Due to this I would quit taking PM, and lose any beginnings of things that were happening.   I tried three times with PM, with the last time ramping up very slowly, and I still had the same adverse side effects with PM.  Maybe its a food/herb allergy, I don't know.

   About two months ago I decided to try Hops extract.  I cannot attest to its strength vs PM, but it did not give me the above noted bad side effects, just the positive desired effects of breast growth, and calming.

   Just putting this out there for others that may have had, or are having problems with PM, or who may want to try something different.

     Paul

Speaking of calming, did it make you sleepy? Some people take hops as a supplement to help with sleep.

As for the particular hops extract you are using, is the Swanson Estro8PN?
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#3

(20-08-2017, 05:59 PM)VergeOfDiscovery Wrote:  
(20-08-2017, 03:02 PM)paul Wrote:  Hi All,
   Re me and PM:  I could not use PM for more than about three weeks.   I'd get bad nausea, stomach cramps, lethargy/no energy, and other problems to where it was not worth proceeding.   Due to this I would quit taking PM, and lose any beginnings of things that were happening.   I tried three times with PM, with the last time ramping up very slowly, and I still had the same adverse side effects with PM.  Maybe its a food/herb allergy, I don't know.

   About two months ago I decided to try Hops extract.  I cannot attest to its strength vs PM, but it did not give me the above noted bad side effects, just the positive desired effects of breast growth, and calming.

   Just putting this out there for others that may have had, or are having problems with PM, or who may want to try something different.

     Paul

Speaking of calming, did it make you sleepy? Some people take hops as a supplement to help with sleep.

As for the particular hops extract you are using, is the Swanson Estro8PN?

Yes I am using Swanson's Estro8PN.   It does not make me sleepy, although I have read that Hops can be used as a sleep aid.    I suspect the calming is due to a reduction in testosterone, but I am not certain since I have not had my blood tested since I've started taking the Hops extract.
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#4

Thanks for posting this. I was thinking about trying that supplement too, but it's sold out atm and I'm not sure the other hops supplements have the specific substance isolated enough to do anything.

Life Extensions is selling a supplement called Natural Estrogen which does have 8-Prenylnaringenin (which is what's in the Swanson's hops formula - aka 8-PN) but it has a lot of other crap too unfortunately. I'm also trying to do things somewhat stealth and a big bottle with "Estrogen" on it isn't the best way to go about that Big Grin

I am taking Zyflamend Nighttime which at least is a full spectrum extract. I'm taking it for other reasons - mainly Chinese Skullcap, but the hops is the main reason I'm taking this instead of Chinese Skullcap by itself. The Chinese Skullcap I'm taking for Lyme disease btw (just in case anyone was thinking I was recommending it Tongue )
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#5

(20-10-2017, 04:57 PM)Nightshade Wrote:  Thanks for posting this. I was thinking about trying that supplement too, but it's sold out atm and I'm not sure the other hops supplements have the specific substance isolated enough to do anything.

Life Extensions is selling a supplement called Natural Estrogen which does have 8-Prenylnaringenin (which is what's in the Swanson's hops formula - aka 8-PN) but it has a lot of other crap too unfortunately. I'm also trying to do things somewhat stealth and a big bottle with "Estrogen" on it isn't the best way to go about that Big Grin

I am taking Zyflamend Nighttime which at least is a full spectrum extract. I'm taking it for other reasons - mainly Chinese Skullcap, but the hops is the main reason I'm taking this instead of Chinese Skullcap by itself. The Chinese Skullcap I'm taking for Lyme disease btw (just in case anyone was thinking I was recommending it Tongue )

The big downside to supplements that have multiple herbs in them is that if you have a bad reaction, you don't know which one it was that caused it, or even if you do have a good reaction, you won't know which ones caused it if you need to switch brands for whatever reason.

I had a really bad reaction to a formula that had a number of different herbs in it that was so bad I avoid all of the ones that were in the bottle. My heart was racing and I considered that I might need to go to the emergency room and probably would have, but really didn't want to have to explain why so I just waited it out. I'm pretty sure it was the licorice root, but I can't say for sure. I think it's much better to add each herb one at a time, with at least a week so you know, even if it might be slightly more expensive doing it this way.
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#6

(20-08-2017, 03:02 PM)paul Wrote:  Hi All,
   Re me and PM:  I could not use PM for more than about three weeks.   I'd get bad nausea, stomach cramps, lethargy/no energy, and other problems to where it was not worth proceeding.   Due to this I would quit taking PM, and lose any beginnings of things that were happening.   I tried three times with PM, with the last time ramping up very slowly, and I still had the same adverse side effects with PM.  Maybe its a food/herb allergy, I don't know.

   About two months ago I decided to try Hops extract.  I cannot attest to its strength vs PM, but it did not give me the above noted bad side effects, just the positive desired effects of breast growth, and calming.

   Just putting this out there for others that may have had, or are having problems with PM, or who may want to try something different.

     Paul

Just out of interest, what brand of PM did you have trouble with ??
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#7

(22-10-2017, 09:35 PM)jannet.duff Wrote:  
(20-08-2017, 03:02 PM)paul Wrote:  Hi All,
   Re me and PM:  I could not use PM for more than about three weeks.   I'd get bad nausea, stomach cramps, lethargy/no energy, and other problems to where it was not worth proceeding.   Due to this I would quit taking PM, and lose any beginnings of things that were happening.   I tried three times with PM, with the last time ramping up very slowly, and I still had the same adverse side effects with PM.  Maybe its a food/herb allergy, I don't know.

   About two months ago I decided to try Hops extract.  I cannot attest to its strength vs PM, but it did not give me the above noted bad side effects, just the positive desired effects of breast growth, and calming.

   Just putting this out there for others that may have had, or are having problems with PM, or who may want to try something different.

     Paul

Just out of interest, what brand of PM did you have trouble with ??

Hi Janet,
  I tried Barlowes and Ainterol PM, and had bad reactions to both brands.   I suspect that some of us just don't do well with PM.

    Paul
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#8

(22-10-2017, 11:42 PM)paul Wrote:  
(22-10-2017, 09:35 PM)jannet.duff Wrote:  
(20-08-2017, 03:02 PM)paul Wrote:  Hi All,
   Re me and PM:  I could not use PM for more than about three weeks.   I'd get bad nausea, stomach cramps, lethargy/no energy, and other problems to where it was not worth proceeding.   Due to this I would quit taking PM, and lose any beginnings of things that were happening.   I tried three times with PM, with the last time ramping up very slowly, and I still had the same adverse side effects with PM.  Maybe its a food/herb allergy, I don't know.

   About two months ago I decided to try Hops extract.  I cannot attest to its strength vs PM, but it did not give me the above noted bad side effects, just the positive desired effects of breast growth, and calming.

   Just putting this out there for others that may have had, or are having problems with PM, or who may want to try something different.

     Paul

Just out of interest, what brand of PM did you have trouble with ??

Hi Janet,
  I tried Barlowes and Ainterol PM, and had bad reactions to both brands.   I suspect that some of us just don't do well with PM.

    Paul

I've went back and forth between both of those brands and both do make me sleepy, though no other side effects.

I haven't had any side effects to hops either, though I've only had it via craft beers...how much hops is there in the recommended dose of the supplement compared to say a six pack of India Pale Ale?
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#9

(22-10-2017, 02:43 PM)PaulaJ Wrote:  
(20-10-2017, 04:57 PM)Nightshade Wrote:  Thanks for posting this. I was thinking about trying that supplement too, but it's sold out atm and I'm not sure the other hops supplements have the specific substance isolated enough to do anything.

Life Extensions is selling a supplement called Natural Estrogen which does have 8-Prenylnaringenin (which is what's in the Swanson's hops formula - aka 8-PN) but it has a lot of other crap too unfortunately. I'm also trying to do things somewhat stealth and a big bottle with "Estrogen" on it isn't the best way to go about that Big Grin

I am taking Zyflamend Nighttime which at least is a full spectrum extract. I'm taking it for other reasons - mainly Chinese Skullcap, but the hops is the main reason I'm taking this instead of Chinese Skullcap by itself. The Chinese Skullcap I'm taking for Lyme disease btw (just in case anyone was thinking I was recommending it Tongue )

The big downside to supplements that have multiple herbs in them is that if you have a bad reaction, you don't know which one it was that caused it, or even if you do have a good reaction, you won't know which ones caused it if you need to switch brands for whatever reason.

I had a really bad reaction to a formula that had a number of different herbs in it that was so bad I avoid all of the ones that were in the bottle. My heart was racing and I considered that I might need to go to the emergency room and probably would have, but really didn't want to have to explain why so I just waited it out. I'm pretty sure it was the licorice root, but I can't say for sure. I think it's much better to add each herb one at a time, with at least a week so you know, even if it might be slightly more expensive doing it this way.

Very true. I don't have any adverse reaction to the formula, but it looks like the Holy Basil in the Zynflamed Nighttime could be bad for estrogen so I'll be switching to just the single herb Skullcap supplement.

I hope Swanson restocks the 8-PN because I haven't found any other hops supplement that is standardized for 8-Prenylnaringenin. I might look into the Life Extension formula at some point, but only after I look very carefully at each ingredient. I agree about sticking to one thing at a time.

And yeah, it probably was the licorice. Either from raising cortisol, hypertension (high blood pressure), or hypokalemia (low potassium). Aside from high blood pressure, I'm doing a treatment called methylation which can lower potassium so I stay faaaaaaaaaar away from licorice (other than the occasional piece of candy).
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#10

Hawaii Pharm's extract is what I used for a while last year. Liked it, but worked it out of my routine as I viewed it as redundant in my regimen.
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