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#11

(03-06-2016, 09:36 PM)Karmmie Wrote:  Lotus, I remember reading somewhere about hepatotoxicity in people who over supplement with green tea extracts. IIRC, there is a threshold above which polyphenols become toxic to not only the liver but also kidneys as well. I believe it only referenced extracts, where the concentration is 5 times the amount in a normal cup if green tea.

It's a vague recollection...anyways, just wanted to pass that info along since I know you like to do research.

okay so that was lovely food for thought before bed last night. I did some mild searching online, and will more than likely check more later when I'm fully awake. So far what I found was in regards to GTE was the amount of caffeine can be quite dangerous. Luckily these are caffeine free. So I guess I need to be a bit more specific in my search but I'm still a bit tired at the moment. But I'll see what I can find, or if anyone finds anything.
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#12

Understanding the bioavailability of polyphenols as it relates to metabolism helps us to understand their role with NBE. In other words, know how your body handles the NBE supplements you take. Start slow/go slow........one thing we've seen is how everyone is different, meaning one person can handle one thing while another can't, BO is a classic example.
(Genetic differences in the P-450 enzymes can result in abnormal reactions to drugs, including idiosyncratic reactions). http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/16...verview#a1

Use common sense when approaching NBE. Why do we start of with 8-12 tablets of BO or 3000 mg of PM and think nothing off it?. Don't underestimate the harm of supplementing with NBE, we've seen (here) too many examples of injury. Use quality (standardized) products that with come with a guarantee. When possible look at being monitored by healthcare professionals that will run labs, vitals, give recommendations etc.

Look at related studies with an open mind, (it's subjective) then formulate your own decision. Stay vigilant, know your body, look for warning signs of toxicity, (nausea, diarrhea, headache, fatigue, heavy bleeding etc). I drink water alongside coffee/tea, and for every sip of either I follow with cold (iced) lemon water (and in my opinion) helps with the bioavailability. Do a liver detox monthly......

Toxic hepatitis occurs when your liver develops inflammation because of exposure to a toxic substance. Toxic hepatitis may also develop when you take too much of a prescription or over-the-counter medication.

One of the liver's roles involves removing and breaking down most drugs and chemicals from your bloodstream. Breaking down toxins creates byproducts that can damage the liver. Although the liver has a great capacity for regeneration, constant exposure to toxic substances can cause serious, sometimes irreversible harm.

Toxic hepatitis can be caused by:
* Alcohol. Heavy drinking over many years can lead to alcoholic hepatitis — inflammation in the liver due to alcohol.
* Over-the-counter pain relievers. Nonprescription pain relievers such as acetaminophen (Tylenol, others), aspirin, ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin IB, others) and naproxen (Aleve, others) can damage your liver, especially if taken frequently or combined with alcohol.
* Prescription medications. Some medications linked to serious liver injury include the combination drug amoxicillin-clavulanate (Augmentin), halothane, isoniazid, valproic acid (Depakene), phenytoin (Dilantin, Phenytek), azathioprine (Azasan, Imuran), niacin (Niaspan), atorvastatin (Lipitor), lovastatin (Mevacor), pravastatin (Pravachol), simvastatin (Zocor), fluvastatin (Lescol), rosuvastatin (Crestor), ketoconazole, certain antibiotics, certain antivirals and anabolic steroids. There are many others.
* Herbs and supplements. Some herbs considered dangerous to the liver include cascara, chaparral, comfrey, kava and ephedra. There are many others. Children can develop liver damage if they mistake vitamin supplements for candy and take large doses.
* Industrial chemicals. Chemicals you may be exposed to on the job can cause liver injury. Common chemicals that can cause liver damage include the dry cleaning solvent carbon tetrachloride, a substance used to make plastics called vinyl chloride, the herbicide paraquat and a group of industrial chemicals called polychlorinated biphenyls.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-condi...N-20026939

Is Green Tea Good for You & How Much Can You Drink Daily?

Daily Intake
The potency of green tea varies from brand to brand, as does the potential for toxicity from excessive use. An overdose of green tea can lead to liver damage and other unpleasant side effects. To maximize the health benefits of green tea safely, the UMMC recommends drinking 2 to 3 cups daily, giving you 240 to 320 milligrams of polyphenols. If you take green tea extract supplements, 100 to 750 milligrams per day is recommended. Opt for caffeine-free products when possible. Because few studies have been done on green tea's effects on children, it is safest not to give it to them.
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/green-te...-8620.html


Tea and Cancer Prevention

Among their many biological activities, the predominant polyphenols in green tea―EGCG, EGC, ECG, and EC―and the theaflavins and thearubigins in black teas have antioxidant activity (12). These chemicals, especially EGCG and ECG, have substantial free radical scavenging activity and may protect cells from DNA damage caused by reactive oxygen species.


Tea as a food item is generally recognized as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. Safety studies have looked at the consumption of up to 1200 mg of EGCG in supplement form in healthy adults over 1- to 4-week time periods (17, 18). The adverse effects reported in these studies included excess intestinal gas, nausea, heartburn, stomach ache, abdominal pain, dizziness, headache, and muscle pain (17, 18). In a Japanese study, children aged 6 to 16 years consumed a green tea beverage containing 576 mg catechins (experimental group) or 75 mg catechins (control group) for 24 weeks with no adverse effects (19). The safety of higher doses of catechins in children is not known.
http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/cause...fact-sheet

Green tea
http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/green-tea

Metabolism of polyphenols occurs via a common pathway (83). The aglycones can be absorbed from the small intestine. However, most polyphenols are present in food in the form of esters, glycosides, or polymers that cannot be absorbed in their native form. These substances must be hydrolyzed by intestinal enzymes or by the colonic microflora before they can be absorbed. When the flora is involved, the efficiency of absorption is often reduced because the flora also degrades the aglycones that it releases and produces various simple aromatic acids in the process. During the course of absorption, polyphenols are conjugated in the small intestine and later in the liver. This process mainly includes methylation, sulfation, and glucuronidation. This is a metabolic detoxication process common to many xenobiotics that restricts their potential toxic effects and facilitates their biliary and urinary elimination by increasing their hydrophilicity. The conjugation mechanisms are highly efficient, and aglycones are generally either absent in blood or present in low concentrations after consumption of nutritional doses. Circulating polyphenols are conjugated derivatives that are extensively bound to albumin. Polyphenols are able to penetrate tissues, particularly those in which they are metabolized, but their ability to accumulate within specific target tissues needs to be further investigated. Polyphenols and their derivatives are eliminated chiefly in urine and bile. Polyphenols are secreted via the biliary route into the duodenum, where they are subjected to the action of bacterial enzymes, especially β-glucuronidase, in the distal segments of the intestine, after which they may be reabsorbed. This enterohepatic recycling may lead to a longer presence of polyphenols within the body.
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/727.full

Which Drugs are Harmful to Your Kidneys? - The National Kidney Foundation
https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/Drugs-Your-Kidneys
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#13

Ha ha, thanks Lotus for providing a one stop shopping place for reading material. Well you know I always advocate for slow and easy. The tortoise wins the race, not the hare. Too much too quickly can definitely cause some issues. I know that from readings and few experiences in my youth.

So far I haven't had any ill side effects with my regiment. Smile

Perhaps I need to re-emphasize that in my program. I did not jump right into what I am taking, I have slowly built up to what I now take. I took it slower than possibly most. But that's me, I'm very cautious about things I take. I don't need to add any new complexities and risk jeopardizing my health. Any new people that join the forum, I always warn about taking it easy and ramping up to their final dosage levels. This serves to ensure their are no adverse side effects to the herbs being taken. Other thing I always want about is to listen to your body!! Your body will warn you if you listen. Unfortunately many in the quest to achieve their desired results tend rush things and ultimately ignore evident warning signs.
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#14

So I have resumed my regiment as of 6/27/16. So something interesting occurred, my doctor requested bloodwork last week and I got my results. One of the things he tested was for T. I was surprised to find that my T had more than doubled since the personal test I took on April 22nd. So I am not sure if that is due to the week long break I took, or what happened. I guess I won't really know until I take my next personal blood test next month. I will just have to make sure that I remember to do the blood test before I go on break. Depending on the results, I may have to rethink how I am doing my breaks.
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#15

Just updated my personal blood work this past week and I got the results in today! It looks like my Total T has gone up and my E has also gone up. Unfortunately I did not take the SHBG test the first go round, so I don't know if that has gone up or down.

Testosterone:
04/22/16 - 335 348-1197 ng/dL
07/22/16 - 376 348-1197 ng/dL

Estrogen:
04/22/16 - 89 40-115 pg/mL
07/22/16 - 92 40-115 pg/mL

Albumin:
04/22/16 - 4.1 3.5-5.5 g/dL
07/22/16 - 4.1 3.5-5.5 g/dL

SHBG:
04/22/16 - N/A
07/22/16 - 264.3 16.5-55.9 nmol/L

The test I was conducting on myself was to see if increasing my daily GTE would boost my E levels. I went from 2 capsules a day to 3 capsules a day. While I did see a 3.4% increase in my E, I also saw a 12.2% increase in my T levels. The slight variation of my E could easily be attributed to timing or other things. Or it could be that the increased consumption of GTE boosted my E levels. I am going to have to go with the test being inconclusive.
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#16

Given my latest blood work results, I am going to take a break from NBE. Today July 26th, 2016 is the start of my break. I will not take any of the herbal supplements that I have listed in my recent program. Around August 19th or 22nd I plan to retake my blood work test to see where my levels are at. Hopefully all my levels will be back to normal range and I can have some peace of mind.

So this will be the first time that I am not taking anything at all. In 19 months, I've always been on something. Even when I was taking weekly breaks, I was still taking 400mg of PM daily. So this test could be quite revealing. I may keep a weekly diary on here to see how I am doing physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. etc. Huh Dodgy
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#17

(26-07-2016, 11:55 PM)Sofia Lauren Bunny Wrote:  Given my latest blood work results, I am going to take a break from NBE. Today July 26th, 2016 is the start of my break. I will not take any of the herbal supplements that I have listed in my recent program. Around August 19th or 22nd I plan to retake my blood work test to see where my levels are at. Hopefully all my levels will be back to normal range and I can have some peace of mind.

So this will be the first time that I am not taking anything at all. In 19 months, I've always been on something. Even when I was taking weekly breaks, I was still taking 400mg of PM daily. So this test could be quite revealing. I may keep a weekly diary on here to see how I am doing physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. etc. Huh Dodgy

It'll be intresting to see how you make out. At the very least this is going to let you know how far along the transgender spectrum you seem to be. I wish you well and have my fingers crossed that the final outcome will be something that is going to give you piece of mind.
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#18

(27-07-2016, 12:28 AM)jannet.duff Wrote:  It'll be intresting to see how you make out. At the very least this is going to let you know how far along the transgender spectrum you seem to be. I wish you well and have my fingers crossed that the final outcome will be something that is going to give you piece of mind.

Awe, thank you so much Jannet, your comments are warm and welcoming and I appreciate them greatly!

So I didn't feel like starting a brand new thread in regards to how I am doing off of herbs. Since technically the stop of all herbs is related to my program, I figured I would give a status update here.

So far I have been holding up pretty well. I think parts of it is because I am a bit more open now with my spouse. That took a huge load of stress off of me. Things are looking good so far with the changes at work, and again, another load of stress has been lifted. So with stress being reduced significantly, I think it has helped me to retain my sanity. I haven't felt any inner turmoil or conflict so far. I haven't lost the desire to continue with my development either. So I am not really sure what all that means in regards to where I am in the TG spectrum.

I guess I shall see how things are going for me next week. Hopefully everything still continues to flow smoothly.
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#19

So it has been nearly 4 weeks since stopping everything. Tomorrow I will redo my blood work and see how everything goes. Hopefully late Monday I will know where I sit normally without any herbs and such.

So mentally I guess I am doing okay. For the most part have been meh lately. Not sure if it is my adjusting to my new position at work, stress or what, but definitely not feeling as jubilant as I was before. Coincidental?? Perhaps.

So have I gone mental with desires to transition? No, I have not, I am for the most part still the same. I do miss the feeling of being balanced. I know that I am not happy being 100% male, not sure if I would be happy being 100% female. Being somewhere in the middle feels just right. I don't know, perhaps I am a bit odd wanting to be both.

Okay, now for the TMI section, feel free to skip this next part:

Last Chance....

As far as other things go, so morning wood returned about 2 weeks or so after stopping. Compulsive sexual urges returned about 2.5 - 3 weeks in. I think I did loose a bit of my development but overall still got some boobies. Big Grin Nipples are still über sensitive! I haven't been sleeping all that great, hard to go back to sleep when things are active at 3-4 in the morning. Dodgy Huh
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#20

Just updated my personal blood work this past week and I got the results in today! It looks like my Total T has gone way up and my E has gone down a bit. My SHBG has significantly been reduced back to normal range.

Testosterone:
04/22/16 - 335 348-1197 ng/dL
07/22/16 - 376 348-1197 ng/dL
08/19/16 - 964 348-1197 ng/dL

Estrogen:
04/22/16 - 89 40-115 pg/mL
07/22/16 - 92 40-115 pg/mL
08/19/16 - 88 40-115 pg/mL

Albumin:
04/22/16 - 4.1 3.5-5.5 g/dL
07/22/16 - 4.1 3.5-5.5 g/dL
08/19/16 - 4.5 3.5-5.5 g/dL

SHBG:
04/22/16 - N/A
07/22/16 - 264.3 16.5-55.9 nmol/L
08/19/16 - 55.2 16.5-55.9 nmol/L

So it looks like NBE has definitely been affecting my levels. You can see since discontinuing my NBE regiment my levels have returned back to normal.

Also in regards to my triglycerides and VLD that has also gone down quite a bit. It is actually lower than my test back in April. It is still in the high area but seems to being doing much better.

I don't think PM was the cause of the spike in my triglycerides and VLD, probably one or more of the other herbs I was taking. I hope this information is helpful to others!! Smile
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