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oki's program
#1
Hello everyone!
After 2 months on BN, I'd like to share some information about me, my program, my progress and ask for opinions and insight.

I'm a 30 years old male. After couple of years contemplating feminization, making temporary steps, unmaking them again, I decided to go down the herbal route, as a sort of "HRT lite", in an attempt to assess if that's what i really want. NBE is huge part of the whole project, but it's general (hormonal) feminization what I seek.
After some research (you call it "lurking" huh?Wink) and kind advice from Lotus (here's long overdue "thanks!") I settled on this program, which I roughly follow for more than 2 months now:

PM (Ainterol): 1000mg/day with some calcium. Plus small amount in body lotion.
Fenugreek: 250 mg/day
Reishi 3:1 alcoholic extract: 30-40 drops/day.
PC cream (Biovea): 1/4 maximum daily recommended dose. Applied for 3 weeks, followed by a break of 1 week. Will go up to 1/2 of recommended dose today.
MSM: 4 grams/day.
Coconut oil: a teaspoon/day.
Infusion from 2 teaspoons of spearmint, 2 teaspoons of green tea, 1 teaspoon of ayurvedic blend (shatavari, ashwagandha, licorice): 4 - 5 times a week.
Massage with flaxseed oil: at least once per day.
Lemon juice w/ warm water.
I shall add WP (3:1 alcoholic extract) if and when the order actually manages to get through the post. (Had 2 shipments lost already..... in Europe, 2016. Go figure.)

That's a lot of supplements and it makes me worry a bit about the liver, but I think the doses are generally on the low side.
Results are showing, fast. Breasts, mostly. I'm very skinny and started totally flat so I guess that could be expected.

What do you think about the program? Are there any undesirable interactions I'm not aware of? What could be added? What can be dropped?

Additionally I have two concerns:
1) Some might find this problem hilarious, but how can I get me some fat tissue healthily? No matter what I eat, I can't gain weight. Long term, this mars breast development no matter how I fiddle with hormones. Not to mention it just doesn't look very feminine.
2) NBE lately sort of overshadowed what I initially considered equally important: body hair reduction. My current program helps some. Could WP work better, via testosterone depletion?

Thanks for your time. Any kind of feedback will be appreciated.
 Reply
#2
(21-04-2016, 10:55 PM)oki Wrote: Hello everyone!
After 2 months on BN, I'd like to share some information about me, my program, my progress and ask for opinions and insight.

I'm a 30 years old male. After couple of years contemplating feminization, making temporary steps, unmaking them again, I decided to go down the herbal route, as a sort of "HRT lite", in an attempt to assess if that's what i really want. NBE is huge part of the whole project, but it's general (hormonal) feminization what I seek.
After some research (you call it "lurking" huh?Wink) and kind advice from Lotus (here's long overdue "thanks!") I settled on this program, which I roughly follow for more than 2 months now:

PM (Ainterol): 1000mg/day with some calcium. Plus small amount in body lotion.
Fenugreek: 250 mg/day
Reishi 3:1 alcoholic extract: 30-40 drops/day.
PC cream (Biovea): 1/4 maximum daily recommended dose. Applied for 3 weeks, followed by a break of 1 week. Will go up to 1/2 of recommended dose today.
MSM: 4 grams/day.
Coconut oil: a teaspoon/day.
Infusion from 2 teaspoons of spearmint, 2 teaspoons of green tea, 1 teaspoon of ayurvedic blend (shatavari, ashwagandha, licorice): 4 - 5 times a week.
Massage with flaxseed oil: at least once per day.
Lemon juice w/ warm water.
I shall add WP (3:1 alcoholic extract) if and when the order actually manages to get through the post. (Had 2 shipments lost already..... in Europe, 2016. Go figure.)

That's a lot of supplements and it makes me worry a bit about the liver, but I think the doses are generally on the low side.
Results are showing, fast. Breasts, mostly. I'm very skinny and started totally flat so I guess that could be expected.

What do you think about the program? Are there any undesirable interactions I'm not aware of? What could be added? What can be dropped?

Additionally I have two concerns:
1) Some might find this problem hilarious, but how can I get me some fat tissue healthily? No matter what I eat, I can't gain weight. Long term, this mars breast development no matter how I fiddle with hormones. Not to mention it just doesn't look very feminine.
2) NBE lately sort of overshadowed what I initially considered equally important: body hair reduction. My current program helps some. Could WP work better, via testosterone depletion?

Thanks for your time. Any kind of feedback will be appreciated.


lemon has been noted to be an appetite suppressant. (which is why you see so many women who go on dates order lemon water with dinner, so they don't gorge themselves in front of potential boyfriends).

be carefule with the licorice .. may CHF (heart attack) if too high in qty. http://gerd.emedtv.com/licorice/licorice-overdose.html
 Reply
#3
Yeah, licorice. A single herb that is said to do so much good and is cheaply available to me, yet I've been wary to use it on regular basis so far...

Jubilate! Baldwin's white peony arrived today. 30 drops per day should do for starters. The taste is kinda meh but still no match for fenugreekSmile
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#4
After a three week break, back to routine. There is definitely some growth lost but I believe it'll be back soon. Testosterone surge surely keeps motivation highSmile.
Do you take breaks regularly? Does it benefit you long term?
Regards, Oki.
 Reply
#5
(22-05-2016, 05:08 PM)oki Wrote: After a three week break, back to routine. There is definitely some growth lost but I believe it'll be back soon. Testosterone surge surely keeps motivation highSmile.
Do you take breaks regularly? Does it benefit you long term?
Regards, Oki.


I try and take a break once every 4th week just to give my internal organs a break so that I can remain somewhat healthy. Benefits will probably more for your liver than anything else. I'm sure I'm missing something else, but it's not coming to mind at the moment. Good luck with your routine! Cool
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#6
It's been three weeks since the resumption of my regime. I simplified it and upped the doses a bit:

PM 1000mg/day w/ calcium
FG 500mg/day
reishi alcoholic extract 30 - 40 drops/day
WP alcoholic extract cca 40 drops/day
PC cream half of the daily recommended dose
MSM 3g/day
coconut oil teaspoon/day
green tea and lemons when I can
No more spearmint, licorice, flaxseed oil.

During the break, the breasts lost all sensitivity and considerable (!) amount of volume. Now they seem to be racing and spurting to make it up. They look like some preteen girl's titties, hehBig Grin It's detectable in T-shirt and obvious when naked. Add to that the hair growing long, the subtle changes in the face, ass, skin... guess I'll have to cope with those looks at the swimming pool this summerSmile

The best thing, however, is that there are no signs of the loss of energy and libido that would left me trudging through feminization with zero enthusiasm. Could spearmint be the culprit? I used to drink 3 or 4 teaspoons almost daily...

All in all, "the NBE project" has been a success so far. I expected to achieve current results in like... a year, not in 4 months.
 Reply
#7
(12-06-2016, 09:32 PM)oki Wrote: I expected to achieve current results in like... a year, not in 4 months.


a person can expect some results in as little as 3-4 months , if you hit on the right program for you. However, full results should be expected in 3-4 years of slow steady growth. that is the average for the genetic female. you may expect around the same range of final growth.
 Reply
#8
(13-06-2016, 12:09 AM)Tanya Marie Squirrel Wrote: if you hit on the right program for you.


Yea, true, the program evolved uncannily from a single bottle of PM caps...Wink
 Reply
#9
Greetings.
I'm closing in at a half year of messing with hormones, so here's a little recapitulation:

Regimen:
PM 1000-1200 mg/day w/ calcium
FG 1000 mg/day
reishi alcoholic extract 40 drops/day
WP alcoholic extract cca 50 drops/day
PC cream half of the daily recommended dose
MSM 4g/day
coconut oil teaspoon/day
green tea irregularly
RC see below
massaging a lot

Concerning PC: I used to use it for 21 days followed by 7 days break as advised on the bottle. During the first post-break days the breasts really felt fuller, plumper, vibrant evenSmile, then it passed and returned to "normal". I like the idea of stimulating growth with short hormonal bursts so I switched to 3 or 4 days on, 2 days off lately. Too soon to draw conclusions but I like it better so far.

Concerning RC: It's blooming everywhere around here so I munch on an inflorescence or several now and then. It seems to be surprisingly potent. Once I gobbled like 6-8 heads without thinking much about it and within hours I had that poisonous headache that always hits me when I take too much or too little of E, causing abrupt disbalance. Definitely will look into RC in near future.

Effects:
Breasts: Well, they are there, they fill the palm, they jiggle when going downstairs, they feel awesome when massaged (especially mornings). I measured myself for the first time: ~80 cm under bust, ~89 cm over bust. Thus I don't fill an (european) AA cup yet. Doesn't look like much on the paper, but I started totally flat and find the growth very impressive. Nipples are sensitive and pointy, areolas don't grow much (could change with RC...?). Luckily I'm far from the dreaded tubular breasts. The reasons probably being relatively low E intake, PC and not much fat on chest to start with.

Body: Fat redistribution took more time than breasts growth, but is now obvious as well. Ass, thighs and even belly are all growing fat tissue and getting lovely feminine curves. This pleases me possibly more than breasts. On the downside muscle loss is evident too and I really don't need that. I took up exercising to fight that and (what's eventually bound to become) sagging ass and boy... did I let myself get weak.

Mental: Hmmm... Hard and tricky to say. I say no effects. Why? My sexual orientation has been slowly shifting for years because I like it that way and I want it that way and I've worked for the change to take place. My gender identity follows suit consequently. My gender expression (still largely male, though effeminate) will follow suit in the future. I chose it. It boils down to how much do I want it vs. how much do I fear the consequence. I take one tentative step, let the fear from the change soak in and usually find liking the change despite the discomfort so I make another step... In time I will find myself down the road and different person but herbs can't be blamed. It’s only addictive the way any hard work’s accomplishment is addictive. I guess what I'm trying to get to across this thin ice is that IMHO hormone induced psychological reframing (mentioned by fearful and horny often on BN) is a major nonsense.

Other effects:
Backache and intense headache when recklessly messing with doses. Don’t!
Dramatic reduction in testicle size.
Loss of libido, lazy erections, no nighttime erections, fatigue - though these slowly return to normal after some time.
Different body odour.
Facial feminization. Really.
As laughable as it sounds, I’ve got a feeling of slight intelectual impairment. Concentration or multi-tasking for example. But it’s just a feeling and there would be a hundred other valid causes for that.

Effects others report and/or could be expected but I haven’t experienced:
Body hair: Unfortunately I observe no significant reduction of body hair growth. To address the issue I’m considering reintroducing spearmint to my regimen, although it appears it works against WP and might hinder NBE a bit. Most folks seem to go „normal T, boosted AR, low DHT“ route; I wonder what would low T regimen look like (after all, that’s how medical HRT goes, right?). Or do I just double on PM dose? If someone could shed some light on the issue, I’d be much obliged.
Hair: Hair loss rate seems to be the same as ever.
Penis shrinkage: I’d say none.
Changes in semen: Nope.
Skin, hair & nail quality: There might be minor overall improvement, but nothing miraculous.

Reactions:
In „normal mode“, the changes aren’t yet obvious at a superficial glance. If I go for it and make an effort (which I sometimes decently do), it’s plain as day there goes a genderqueer. Either way I‘ve experienced no strong reactions yet. True, I’m not seeing people all that much.
The family and old friends are sort of struck dumb, probably hoping I’ll come to my senses before too long and late (if they only knew…). Some withdraw. We don’t talk about it.
My soon-to-be-exgirlfriend and I have discussed our relationship and my sexuality quite a bit. She tried, I more or less lost interest and gave up on trying. Naturally, the feminization is only one of several reasons for the relationship failure and not even the biggest.
Women are more cautious and keep their distance, guys watch with sympathy and curiosity if not yet interest.
Generally the relationships tend to deteriorate. Of course, it’s the personality and attitude what matters most, not one’s decision to experiment with gender. Here I’ve got much to improve.

Miscellanous:
There’s one more insight i want to share. I generally care little about acceptance and judgments of others. I hoped I was relatively prepared for loss of respect of the narrow-minded. Still, it’s one thing to think „Well, I don’t socialize much and am kinda outsider anyway, what’s there to lose“ or „I wouldn’t even attempt to get close to her anyway, why bother“. To later watch it play out in reality before your own eyes is a different thing. Opportunities you used to wave off, now gone forever. Women who look at you once and then just won’t see you anymore. (Which, ironically, is exactly how I treat people of no interest to me; I thought it just practical, now I see it’s cruel, too). That’s a tough one and gives you second thoughts. „Am I working so diligently at my own doom? Am I really no better than short-sighted fool, mistaking base kink for a calling?“ Is it common sense coming to rescue at long last or just good ol‘ fear babbling? What to choose?

Conclusion:
Okay, what have I learned during the last six months? Thanks to my height and age I can never pass for a woman. But I’ve come to believe, with commitment, time and money, I could become a pretty passable TS (that coming from a very critical person!). Do I need that? Not really, not being a case of severe gender dysphoria. Do I want it? Yes, more than ever, actually. What could prevent me? Besides fear, lack of consistent effort combined with passage of time, I guess…
Though I feel highly motivated, I‘ve somewhat paradoxically embarked on another break from estrogenics and AAs (replacing them with milk thistle, dandelion and other herbs). I feel I need to concentrate on more pressing practical matters, to later be able to pursue feminization in earnest. And to look at my situation from outside the pink bubble. And to experience once more the joy of rapid post-break growthSmile.
So, I hope in another half year I’ll find myself closer to transition OR back in male mode, makin‘ money, bangin‘ females and stuff. With shrunk tits, ha ha. To be stuck in between, undecided and sullen, now that would be a fail.

If you’ve read it all, I apologize for the verbosity, the text has swollen way beyond the original intent, but has a certain therapeutical valueSmile.

Regards, oki.


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#10
Jeepers .... That's some nice growth in just 6 months. I would say your going to be a big girl.
I'm no where near that after over a year on NBE and 4 months HRT. Whatever your doing, it's working well.
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