[blackhawk]

I've read through a lot of the posts here, and just wanted to clarify some things about NBE. First and foremost, is it really possible for bilological males to achieve natural breast growth? There's so much info out there its difficult to tell the facts from the hype. Secondly, I've looked over many of the lists of herbs and what they do, I was thinking saw palmetto, fenugreek, and milk thistle may be a good start, is there any combination you've found that works better? And lastly, I am 24 years old and straight. I'm not sure where my fascination started with developing breast, but its something I've thought about for nearly a year now. I'm completely interested and women and want to have kids someday, is NBE something that could prevent that? (Also curious about the brain rewiring issue people have gone back and forth over). Thank you for any and all input!

[flamesabers]

Hello blackhawk. Welcome to the forum.

First and foremost, is it really possible for bilological males to achieve natural breast growth?

Yes, males are born with the same rudimentary breast tissue as females, it's just a matter of males achieving the right balance of hormones to grow breasts like females do during puberty.

Secondly, I've looked over many of the lists of herbs and what they do, I was thinking saw palmetto, fenugreek, and milk thistle may be a good start, is there any combination you've found that works better?

I haven't tried milk thistle, but I have used Saw Palmetto, Fenugreek and Red Clover for a few months. These phytoestrogens are considered to be weaker herbs which may be useful for establishing a baseline to switch to stronger herbs. I'm currently taking Pueraria Mirifica and I think that is quite an effective herb for growing breasts.

And lastly, I am 24 years old and straight. I'm not sure where my fascination started with developing breast, but its something I've thought about for nearly a year now.

Before the last year, would you describe yourself as feeling and thinking like a typical male? If your answer is yes, your feelings might be more of a fantasy or fetish to have breasts than a genuine desire to permanently live with having your own pair of breasts. If your answer leans more towards being no, it's possible you have gender dysphoria and would benefit from taking phytoestrogens .

Gender identity can be a real complex issue. I would recommend spending some time thinking about if you want to go through with this before committing the time and money. Something you may want to consider is getting a bra and pair of breast forms to see if that satisfies your desire to have breasts.

I'm completely interested and women and want to have kids someday, is NBE something that could prevent that? (Also curious about the brain rewiring issue people have gone back and forth over). Thank you for any and all input!

If you already have a wife or gf, I think you should discuss this beforehand with her. If you don't, I would advise you to consider how NBE may impact trying to date and eventually marry a woman. Women can have all sorts of attitudes towards men who have breasts. Some women may think you're a transsexual who will have srs sometime in the future. Other women might think you're gay or just weird for intentionally growing breasts. I imagine having breasts will probably narrow down the amount of women who would be interested in you.

Depending on what herbs you take and for how long, NBE can lower or possibly eliminate altogether your sex drive and reproductive capabilities. I can say my sex drive has lowered considerably since starting with NBE and numerous other members have reported experiencing a drop in their sex drive. There are remedies to counter this, but I don't think it would be worth it to take the chance that everything is going to work out favorably. Considering your interest in having kids, I would recommend holding off on NBE in the meantime.

As far as the brain rewiring issue, I think this goes back to what your gender identity is. Brain rewiring can be a blessing or curse depending on what your gender identity is.

[blackhawk]

Thanks for the response... it began several years ago when I was put on a cocktail of drugs after having surgery. The medication caused a mild case of gynecomastia (breast growth in males) that eventually receded after the medication was stopped. I was uncomfortable at first, but my girlfriend of five years (and still current girl) was completely supportive and actually incorporated the changes in our sex life. It was amazing, a more intimate feeling than i've ever felt in my life. Once everything returned to normal I was relieved at first, but now over the course of the past year I've actually really started to miss it and wondered if there were anyway to make those changes permanent. Its such a complex situation because i'd love so much to have them from a personal and relationship standpoint, i felt so much closer to my girl if that makes sense, but i worry about being able to hide them from the "public" on a daily basis. I guess in a perfect world i'd love an A cup, large enough to enjoy, but small enough to cover if need be. However, i know that size can't really be dictated, you either want them or not. Idk i guess i'm at a crossroads here.

[flamesabers]

Have you talked to your gf about this? I think there's a huge difference between growing breasts as a side-effect of medication and intentionally growing them with herbs. I think something else to consider is would you want to have breasts so much if your gf wasn't so supportive?

A red flag goes up in my mind when I read how you felt relieved at first when the gynecomastia disappeared. Perhaps it's the intimacy you had while having gynecomastia that you miss as oppose to having breasts?

[blackhawk]

I haven't mentioned it to her yet because it's something I'm still trying to figure out. I know that there is a huge difference between intentional and unintentional growth, and yes you are correct, I miss that intimacy so much, but for some strange reason it almost felt natural ya know. I was relieved because I wouldn't have to worry about being embarrassed in public, but privately I was really upset to see it go. The biggest issue is fighting what I privately want to have which is breasts, and the fear of public embarrassment if I get to the point that I'm unable to conceal them. I guess the thing is I'm straight and love being a guy (strength and masculinity) and I don't want to give that up as a whole, but there was something that felt so right about that period of time that I don't really feel complete with them gone. I don't wanna transition into a female, just wanna be a guy with breasts.... such a hard feeling to describe, like somethings missing.

[flamesabers]

Once you achieved a certain amount of breast growth, going swimming and otherwise going shirtless in public will no longer be practical. Before you get to that point though, do you feel having to deal with tender and swollen areolas and nipples would erode your sense of being a guy? After all, it's usually pubescent girls who have to deal with such bodily changes, not males in their twenties. If you frequently work out in a gym, you'll probably have to be discreet when changing in the locker room so nobody sees your budding breasts. Depending on how much you love being a guy, having breasts could end up causing too much embarrassment for you than it's worth.

As I mentioned earlier, perhaps getting a bra and breast forms and wearing them in private might give you some insight as to what you really want to do. This may also be helpful in gauging how your gf will feel about you having breasts.

[blackhawk]

I never really swim and am certainly never shirtless in public, so none of those situations bother me, I wouldn't consider that too much of a sacrifice. I feel that I'm comfortable enough with who I am to be completely fine with the changes, it's something that I want.... I just also want to be able to appear as normal as possible in everyday scenarios like at work, outside of that I'm not worried about hiding it. Is concealing it in public daily life in the realm of possibility or is that asking way too much? Should I be at a point where I'm comfortable displaying them at any situation? I'm sorry for getting deep and hypothetical, I'm just new to this and torn between what I want for myself and how everyday people view me.

[flamesabers]

Is concealing it in public daily life in the realm of possibility or is that asking way too much? Should I be at a point where I'm comfortable displaying them at any situation?

Ideally I would say you should be at a point where you don't feel the need to go to great lengths to conceal your breasts nor do you worry about someone noticing your breasts either. I would describe it as having a sense of normalcy with your growing breasts.

Theoretically you could stop taking NBE herbs once you get to a size you're comfortable with and isn't too difficult to hide. However, you may find yourself liking how the phytoestrogens influence your mental state (aka brain rewiring) so much that you want to continue taking the herbs despite not wanting to get bigger breasts. Would you bothered by the possibility of feeling more relaxed, content and easy-going when you're taking phytoestrogens than when you're not? Even though you know that by continuing down this road will make it more difficult to present yourself as a normal male? If this sounds like a lot to think about, I think it is.

Three other issues I think that precedes this is:

• How will you gf react to you wanting to grow/have breasts?
  
• Possibly losing your sex drive and/or experience other feminizing effects on your body?
  
• NBE impairing with your ability to reproduce?
  

[blackhawk]

Of those issues i the only thing that concerns me is fertility, because i absolutely want kids. After talking with my girl she is surprisingly cool with it, said it may even be fun (she's so awesome!). At times my sex drive can be unbearably high so i'm sure we'd both benefit from it slowing down a little. Stopping the NBE at a comfortable point would be amazing, i just wasn't sure if the changes would be permanent once the herbs were stopped. And i'm not sure how'd i'd feel about the herbs if there was a rewiring... hard to say because its not something ive experienced.

[flamesabers]

i just wasn't sure if the changes would be permanent once the herbs were stopped.

The actual breast tissue is permanent but you may lose the fat redistribution in your breasts if you go long enough without taking herbs.