[Lenneth]

Kim, I can understand that way of thinking, but I tend to disagree, generally speaking, of course.
I know that is a commonly echoed theme in some quarters, particularly among those who are gay themselves.
But I still disagree, and here is why.
It is human nature to try to categorize people into neat and tidy categories that meet commonly understood stereotypes. It makes life much simpler. However, people do not always cooperate.

Tee hee.
It is especially attractive to categorize if that allows someone (not referring to anyone) reinforces ones own insecurity about identity. There is perceived safety in numbers. And I hear it all the time. In the same way, as I know you know from the other board, debate continues in the TG world as to whether all CDs are really in some form actually the same as TS.
It seems to me that it is far more likely that, just as there is no real binary in gender, that there is also no real binary in sexuality. Sure, some people are clearly and firmly at one pole, either totally straight or totally gay, but the main body of people are, I think, probably somewhere else, and merely adopt rigid positions through social conditioning. I hesitate to say somwhere in between, or in the middle, because that, too, is an oversimplification. The worlds of gender and sexuality are, for me, like brilliant, many faceted diamonds. People, far from being rigidly placed in polar positions, tend to defy simple binary classifications, and, rather, are more like different facets of those two diamonds, and no two are exactly the same. Trying to place them into neat little boxes, while convenient, does little to promote real understanding nor is it, for me at least, conducive to the overall spiritual welfare of those individuals or to anyone.
That said, there are, of course, people who fail to understand this and spend their time trying to force themselves to conform to one of society's categories, often driving themselves crazy in the process.
Of course, that is just my opinion...

I will shut up now...lol

how I sometimes argue on A/B vs a possible ABC......Z123.......to infinity on genders is "DNA is so complex that only currently, and with the aid of many massive supercomputers are the entirety of geneticists 'starting' to understand 'tiny fragments' of it, so why should anything else about life be any less complex?"

[AnnieBL]

Kim, I can understand that way of thinking, but I tend to disagree, generally speaking, of course.
I know that is a commonly echoed theme in some quarters, particularly among those who are gay themselves.
But I still disagree, and here is why.
It is human nature to try to categorize people into neat and tidy categories that meet commonly understood stereotypes. It makes life much simpler. However, people do not always cooperate. Tee hee.
It is especially attractive to categorize if that allows someone (not referring to anyone) reinforces ones own insecurity about identity. There is perceived safety in numbers. And I hear it all the time. In the same way, as I know you know from the other board, debate continues in the TG world as to whether all CDs are really in some form actually the same as TS.
It seems to me that it is far more likely that, just as there is no real binary in gender, that there is also no real binary in sexuality. Sure, some people are clearly and firmly at one pole, either totally straight or totally gay, but the main body of people are, I think, probably somewhere else, and merely adopt rigid positions through social conditioning. I hesitate to say somwhere in between, or in the middle, because that, too, is an oversimplification. The worlds of gender and sexuality are, for me, like brilliant, many faceted diamonds. People, far from being rigidly placed in polar positions, tend to defy simple binary classifications, and, rather, are more like different facets of those two diamonds, and no two are exactly the same. Trying to place them into neat little boxes, while convenient, does little to promote real understanding nor is it, for me at least, conducive to the overall spiritual welfare of those individuals or to anyone.
That said, there are, of course, people who fail to understand this and spend their time trying to force themselves to conform to one of society's categories, often driving themselves crazy in the process.
Of course, that is just my opinion...

I will shut up now...lol

Sammie, I am at least 95% in agreement with your post. One or two things more, in the context of this thread. I am fully convinced that sexual orientation is another spectrum on which each of us is located somewhere, but it may be difficult to gain a proper appreciation of where we stand on that spectrum, not least because of the propensity we have of classifying people, starting from the moment of birth (or before with ultrasound imaging!) when we are assigned a sex and gender based on apparent physical factors, and once so assigned are expected to conform in behavior to our assigned sex, i.e. to fit in the male or female box defined by the culture and environment in which we find ourselves. If either or both of our sexual or gender orientations is variant from that assigned, we have problems. although we may not realize the reasons for those problems. In my case my efforts to overcome these problems persuaded me that I must be homosexual. As I very gradually appreciated that I was unwilling and unable to establish emotional bonds, at least with non-effeminate males, and was sent running by any attempt to do so by other males, I realized where my true sexual orientation lay towards females, even if frustratingly I was unable to pursue relationships with them unless I could perceive myself as the pursued. I also came to believe that a great many of the gay men I had encountered were also desperately averse to developing any continuing relationship with the other men they encountered, leaving me to wonder whether it was only some developmental problem preventing them from pursuing heterosexual relationships rather than indulging in the extreme promiscuity (the numbers game) that later did so much to kick start the AIDS epidemic. Fortunately my own exposure to that world was limited by severe guilt reactions and gradual realization by the mid-70s that my orientation was essentially heterosexual. So behaviorally I may have seemed to switch orientation, although gradually and nothing to do with growing breasts.

When I emigrated to Canada 40 years ago, the firm that recruited me actually hired two of us. While I must have seemed a loner without apparent relationships until I surprised everyone by acquiring a ready made family, the other recruit was fairly openly gay, and settled into a live-in relationship with his rather effeminate boy friend, until he in turn surprised everybody by seemingly quite suddenly marrying a female criminal lawyer specializing in cases involving LGBT people. The marriage has been enduring, they have had and raised two children, and to external appearances it is successful. So there is another apparent switch, although with no connection that I know of to breasts.

[Samantha Rogers]

Annie, I dont think we disagree at all. I agree that all manner of outside conditions and influences act to place us into conforming boxes both sexually and by gender. I merely believe that we are not all, or even most of us, so rigidly defined in either way internally. Many people are fortunate enough to recognise their exact true nature quite organically. Others struggle their entire lives denying themselves and trying desperately to convince themselves that they do conform. And then there are those who will sooner or later figure out exactly where they belong and who they need to be.
My contension, though, is that if you could totally remove all the societally imposed conditioning and stereotyping (admittedly impossible currently) about gender roles and sexual attraction roles,you would discover that the vast majority of humans would find life partners based not on gender or sex but rather on personal attraction, ..what Sarah laughs at me for calling "the eyes and the heart". By this I mean it would all boil down to the dynamic between two personalities and have nothing to do with gender presentation, per se, or with what kind of genitals each happened to possess.

And now I am really tired of typing on this little cell. Lol

[GoneGirl]

I think one's position on the sexual orientation spectrum is predetermined, but I do agree that, just like with gender identity, we can force ourselves, consciously or subconsciously, to conform to external influences. For me, the acid test of sexual orientation is the involuntary arousal response that is invoked during a sexual experience. In other words...what turns you on?

I remember years ago I was on a business trip and staying at a hotel. One evening when little else was happening to divert my attention, I called up an adult movie and settled in to watch. There were a couple of beautiful blond women in a bath tub together enjoying their bath and each other. I experienced the normal arousal response that seeing a woman's beautiful body normally induces. Then, both women stand to get out of the tub and it's revealed that they are T-girls! Well, let me just say, that I never knew arousal like I experienced arousal at that moment. It was the day I learned that I was attracted to convincingly feminine T-girls.

Now that was my T-laden male persona's response. Clara is a T-gal herself, and that puts a different slant on things.

Clara

[Connie]

well let me alter my initial question. Are there erotic feelings for your breasts? Do they convince you that you are female (now) and that you should be aroused by men? And finally when men stare at your breasts, do you feel female?

I really don't think I'm much different than most of you.

[flamesabers]

well let me alter my initial question. Are there erotic feelings for your breasts? Do they convince you that you are female (now) and that you should be aroused by men? And finally when men stare at your breasts, do you feel female?

I really don't think I'm much different than most of you.

My answer is no to all of your questions. My breasts aren't an erogenous zone for me. I still have an androgynous gender identity, and I haven't caught anyone, male or female, staring at my breasts.

[Wuerstchen]

I'm sure most of you guys are normal heterosexual males. I was too in my teens until I experienced a life changing event. I dated girls and even had some intimate experiences. I developed breasts early and when I was 16, I was a C cup. My mother encouraged this and helped me cross dress at every opportunity.

There was a teen dance I wanted to go to . Mom and I agreed I would go as a girl. We selected my outfit to go with a beautiful sequenced top that was cut really low. In fact with a push up bra, I was almost spilling out.

She drove me to the dance and almost immediately it was apparent that none of the girls was showing so much. But no place to hide. Breasts attract men like flies to honey. I experienced what most GG's do (if they are lucky), some guy talking to you and staring at your chest. It was wonderful- that which I had to hide most of my life was now making me very attractive. I was thrilled. Before long a guy invited me out to his car for a drink of whiskey. That soon led to some heavy petting. When he put his hands on my breasts it was like an electric shock. I think I had an orgasm immediately. From that moment, it was all guys- I wanted more of that.

Have any of you experienced anything like this? perhaps not leading to transgender, as my case, but at least altering your sexual orientation?

I have gynecomastia and as I have grown older my breasts have grown to a b cup. But I am securely male in my orientation, even though i play with my breasts almost daily and have multiple nipple orgasms. My wife and other women I have been intimate with have taken to my sensitive nipples. So in my case: no, having breasts has not changed my sexual orientation.

[elainecd]

May I chime in a little?
I've been bisexual all my life....my first experience was actually with a girl my age (11) and a boy about 15. We met several times, it was new and very exciting...especially with the boy.

Through my teenage years and into college...it was girls, girls, girls.
My male attractions were pushed back but there. They returned by 20 or so. I was slim, long haired and could be effeminate.

Over the years I have enjoyed sex with and satisfied many partners male and female. My inclination is towards men hence, once I discovered NBE, my desire for breasts.

I really feel both sexes and the potential to enjoy what ever role we want, are in each of us. Discovery of the ability to "switch" can be thrilling.

Even though my first two divorces had nothing to do with my "side life" (it was always kept secret) I really wish I had not married that third time.....I could have led the lifestyle I wanted for the last 20 years.

So I continue , growing breasts and hoping to find a way to get closer to who I am inside.

Thank you all for listening.

[The First Aria]

I think that since your Mom promoted that way of life for you.... You were more conditioned and therefore confused more than any other thing...

I understand the love of feminine clothing, as I have it as well. Would it kill me if I couldn't cross dress any more? No. I think, that if I was really cross gendered... I would have to find a way, or suffer mentally from it.

[elainecd]

Back to original question....I left out....just trying and hopefully, growing breasts will enhance my orientation.
It feels great to have the tingling and the sometimes "electric" shocks that come with NBE.